Amateur Maker - Progress?

[TKing]

Hi all, I have lurked here for a while after I decided to pick up the simple system flute about a year and a half ago. I played a good amount of silver flute throughout my school years but hadn’t picked even one of those up in 15 years, so I’m very much a beginner, with perhaps a leg up on my embouchure and breath control (muscle memory!)

About the same time I started fooling around with wood turning and decided to try it out after making a PVC flute shaped instrument following Doug Tipples excellent instructions.

Since then I’ve made a good amount of progress and done a mind numbing amount of reading into the process of making these instruments. I have no real plans to make it anything more than a fun hobby any time soon, but I did figure I’d share my work here where it might be appreciated.

Ultimately, I’d like to find someone local or local-ish (Hello from Vancouver Island!) to try it out and get some real feedback on feel, response, tone, etc. I have been comparing my work to my current flute, a keyless M&E in delrin, and the flute I’ll be posting a link to below seems to meet or exceed those categories compared to the delrin flute, to my untrained ear anyway.

The design I’ve worked up is somewhere in the middle of what I’ve seen as the typical R&R bore and tonehole size, and the prattens I’ve seen. (F# on mine is an hair over 11mm, and the end bore diameter is something like 12.2 mm after backreaming) Unfortunately I’ve only had access to a couple instruments so the breadth of my hands on research has been limited! Still, it’s been a fun experience so far, and trial and error are also great tools for learning.

All work is done on a basic wood lathe with 36” centers.

5 piece African Blackwood with aluminum tuning slide (I’ve done brass, but wanted to see how aluminum held up. So far so good), good weight and balance to it. The mortise/socket ends of the joints are lined with cork (Thank you Terry McGee, I got the idea from the “minimum disruption tenon” page on your website). I’ve used a tuning slide on my head joint, but the other tenons all use this method and im a huge fan. I’m curious as to how well it will hold up with regular disassembly, cleaning, etc.

The embouchure is, I think, fairly well cut. I can easily get to the third D, and can squeak out an E in the third but that’s also as far as I can get on my M&E sooo. I’m still working on getting a consistently good tone, but when I focus and play slowly I can get a nice loud D and a decent honk on the G.

Anyway, any comments, critiques, and advice are welcome, cheers!

https://imgur.com/a/k69e5BZ

[Terry McGee]

Good on you, TKing. Just be aware that flute-making has all the hallmarks of drug addiction - once experienced, very hard to give up. And your image shows that you appear to be making very good progress! Good to canvass feedback from other players as you are doing - I remember making wooden flutes in Canberra from around 1975 and feeling very isolated! I had to teach the locals tin whistle, then wait for them to want flutes! Talk about a predatory business model! Having the occasional experienced player pass through was invaluable.

Now, notable by their absence from your flute are rings. Work-in-progress, or are you going with the stealth look?

Ah, Vancouver Island. I seem to remember sitting in the sun back in mid 2002 drinking Pear Cider in Smugglers Cove ....

[TKing]

Thanks Terry, the pile of wooden and delrin billets currently sitting on my worktop in various stages of prep can attest to that!

I’m playing around with some other hardwoods easily and cheaply accessible here. I have some Osage Orange billets that are next on the list, we’ll see how the relatively soft hardwood sounds and feels. I have found im partial to a weighty instrument, though.

Finding local players has proven challenging for sure! There’s a public session locally twice a month, not a tooter to be found!

As to the rings. They are indeed next on the list. I’ve started compiling some of the tooling required for basic silversmithing, and will be trying my hand at it. I did put it to myself as a bit of a challenge at first, however, to try to get the joints clean enough that the stealth look appeared pleasing aesthetically. Not sure I fully succeeded, but it looks fair enough. Once I’m satisfied with my progress with rings on scrap sections, I’ll probably retrofit this one with some low profile half round rings and see if I like the look.

[TKing]

Well, as stated, I’ve gotten a bit of soldering experience now and I’m pleased so far. I had some Blackwood sqaures still and turned this three piece to adorn with brass. I’m fairly happy with how it turned out.

https://imgur.com/a/qfao5Sh

The tone is actually pretty great with good volume and easily reaches the third octave D and E.

But mostly I’m just happy with how the rings shaped up. They do make it look…more professional maybe? Certainly nicer anyway.

I think I’ll be going back to the standard tenons for the lower joints though. There really isn’t enough meat left over ok either side for me to be comfortable about longevity or durability, even with the rings.

[Flotineer]

I think this is a very good-looking flute. I know nothing of acoustic design, but the 3 section w/integrated foot is really attractive. I like the contrasting endcap, and not having a ring on the end of the foot, too.

[Terry McGee]

Yeah, looking good, TKing. You'll soon have more established makers looking anxiously over their shoulders. (He said, looking anxiously over his shoulder....)

I wonder how many emerging makers we have out there? If someone wanted a PhD project, it could be to track the rise (and fall, sigh) of modern Irish flute makers. Hopefully it would find we are building enough new makers to keep the trade going!

Hmmm, better slip down to the workshop and knock out a few flutes before I get too old....

[TKing]

I think this is a very good-looking flute. I know nothing of acoustic design, but the 3 section w/integrated foot is really attractive. I like the contrasting endcap, and not having a ring on the end of the foot, too.

Thank you very much Flotineer, I appreciate it!

I agree about the lack of a ring on the foot. I mocked one up and decided against it. It’s certainly not necessary

Yeah, looking good, TKing. You'll soon have more established makers looking anxiously over their shoulders. (He said, looking anxiously over his shoulder....)

Ha! Thank you for the compliment, it means a lot.

It is certainly interesting going through the makers list and seeing whose sites no longer work, and who have been newly added. There are a fair few but honestly way fewer than I expected

[TKing]

Just wanted to show an update with rings.

Ive made a couple flutes for some folks locally to great reception but I also plan to send a couple out to some willing people with more experience and whose unbiased and unreserved opinion I expect will result in some good constructive criticism.

I’ve also set up to plate brass rings for that silver look without breaking the bank, especially for tuning slides (well the barrel slide sheath anyway)

https://imgur.com/a/iRnEYYK

Thanks to anyone who checks it out

[jefff]

Those look fantastic! I like the look of the brass, i suppose over time it would develop a nice brown patina? I’m thinking of the raw brass area inside the tuning slide on my trumpet. On the outside I think trumpets and other brass instruments maintain the glossy exterior with a clear enamel coating? But the silver plating sounds neat too! I wish I had time or capacity for such an undertaking as flute making. Your end product looks really great. Oh and I like the part where it flairs up to a point around the tuning slide receiver thingy!

[Terry McGee]

Looking great, TKing.

I started out with brass rings, and then offered a choice of brass or sterling silver, the difference in cost being essentially the difference in metal costs. Interestingly almost everyone opted for the sterling silver. It might just tell me that my flute prices back then were too low!

But keep that option in mind. You can buy short lengths of suitable dimensioned sterling silver wire from jewelry making suppliers, so you don't need to keep much in stock at first. You'd also need some silver solder (jewelry type, not plumbing type!) and flux. And a pickle to remove the soldering flux and copper oxide.

But yeah, getting a wider range of feedback on your instruments is going to be a very useful step. Don't expect a uniform response - we are all very different, and what suits one won't suit another. Otherwise there wouldn't be as many flute makers as there have been!

Getting to a few flute events with an armful of flutes is also a good way to get feedback. And you get to try their flutes while they are trying yours! That can sometimes leave you shaking your head. "How come anyone can play so well on a flute as bad as this?" And then find they don't like yours. As I say, everyone is different, and that's when you find out just how different!

[Conical bore]

Great looking flute! About this part: "Next up… preparing a plating solution for nickel plated brass for tuning slide and rings."

Some people have an allergic reaction to nickel. Maybe it's not a problem with the rings being so small, but something you might want to look into about skin contact allergies for the hands.

Copper rings are a nice look against blackwood, so maybe consider that as an option? I have a Lehart Bb flute with copper rings and a brass slide, and I like the aesthetics. It looks intentional, not just a cheap substitute for silver (although it does help keep the cost down).

[Jayhawk]

Really nice work!

Eric

[TKing]

Those look fantastic! I like the look of the brass, i suppose over time it would develop a nice brown patina? I’m thinking of the raw brass area inside the tuning slide on my trumpet. On the outside I think trumpets and other brass instruments maintain the glossy exterior with a clear enamel coating? But the silver plating sounds neat too! I wish I had time or capacity for such an undertaking as flute making. Your end product looks really great. Oh and I like the part where it flairs up to a point around the tuning slide receiver thingy!

Thanks Jefff! I’m curious as well, I’m not very worried about the slide which is mopped out frequently, but the rings I’m sure will tarnish over time somewhat, I’ve always liked a bit of patina on brass though, so we’ll see!

And I agree about the flare, certainly my favourite parts to turn

I started out with brass rings, and then offered a choice of brass or sterling silver, the difference in cost being essentially the difference in metal costs. Interestingly almost everyone opted for the sterling silver. It might just tell me that my flute prices back then were too low!

That is interesting! Ive played around with the silver wire and can solder that no problem now, but my slides are brass and I don’t have the tooling to change that any time soon, so there’s the challenge. I’m looking at nickel plating just the barrel female extension so that when open there’s a continuity of colour with the silver rings. We’ll see how that works out.

But yeah, getting a wider range of feedback on your instruments is going to be a very useful step. Don't expect a uniform response - we are all very different, and what suits one won't suit another. Otherwise there wouldn't be as many flute makers as there have been!

That’s my hope. They play great for me, but am I a flat player and everyone will play sharp? Or the opposite? Will they be responsive enough to other people? All things I’m looking forward to hearing, the good and the bad haha

Great looking flute! About this part: "Next up… preparing a plating solution for nickel plated brass for tuning slide and rings."

Some people have an allergic reaction to nickel. Maybe it's not a problem with the rings being so small, but something you might want to look into about skin contact allergies for the hands.

Copper rings are a nice look against blackwood, so maybe consider that as an option? I have a Lehart Bb flute with copper rings and a brass slide, and I like the aesthetics. It looks intentional, not just a cheap substitute for silver (although it does help keep the cost down).

Interesting I wasn’t aware that nickel allergies were very prevalent. Good to know. The ultimate plan is to only plate the slide, and use silver for the rings, so hopefully that should mitigate any of that agitation for anyone handling it.

I have some copper wire as well, waiting on a flute to try it out. I personally really like that copper hue against Blackwood that Lehart has used. Thanks for the suggestion!

Really nice work!
Eric

Thanks Eric!

[Tradman]

Yes, this is quite exciting. I have a small CNC router that I used for several years to make items out of acrylic sheet and would occasionally mill some wood parts, but that always led me to want to get a lathe. This puts fuel on the fire

Your work thus far has been fantastic looking. Thanks for all the updates and keep us going by sharing how you grow and go with it all.

Eric T

[Terry McGee]

I’m looking at nickel plating just the barrel female extension so that when open there’s a continuity of colour with the silver rings. We’ll see how that works out.

The 19th century approach was to have brass slides in head and barrel, with a tube of whatever metal was used for rings and keys as a cover for the barrel female extension. So the tube of matching metal was the bit you could see when the slide was opened. The tubes were very thin-walled (about the same thickness as the slides), so even if it's sterling silver it's not really expensive. In those days, they press-fitted the matching tube, but these days you could probably just glue it in place.