Metal keyed flute

[DrPhill]

First, apologies if this is the wrong place to ask this particular question, and more apologies if I get any of the terminology wrong....

I am getting the hang of a my keyless wooden flutes, and am toying with the idea of getting something keyed. I was thinking about a flute that used the keys to overcome the limitation of the human hand - placing the tone holes closer to the ideal positions dictated by physics. I would also like to try playing a properly chromatic instrument for a change. This, I believe, and please correct me if I am wrong, means the sort of flute played in orchestras. When I browse amazon I can see quite affordable ones at the lower end and this seems 'too good to be true'. Are these any good? If not what instruments would be a good compromise between play-ability and price?

I only play for my own pleasure, and I do not restrict myself to irish music, nor do I have a particular 'tone' in mind.

Any information, opinions or feed back welcome.

Please feel free to demolish any preconceptions or errors I may have.

Thanks

Phill

[Flutern]

There are makers that make "Irish" flutes with very ergonomic hole size/position/spacing and/or keys. However, if you're looking for a good metal Boehm flute, Yamaha is a really reliable brand when it comes to student flutes (and they also make excellent higher end instruments too). Look at flutes in the 200 (all silver plated nickel), 300 (silver headjoint, nickel body) series, depending on your budget.

If I were you I would avoid the "too good to be true" flutes: as the saying goes, "buy cheap, buy twice"... First, it's likely that you will be disappointed and frustrated by the quality of the instrument. Second, a (Boehm) flute will eventually require maintenance (pads, adjustment of the mechanism), and the cost of this maintenance might not be worth it on a cheap instrument, not to mention the fact that some woodwind repairers will simply refuse to work on such an instrument (just like your bike shop might refuse to repair a bike bought in Wallmart).

Edit: and on cheap Boehm flutes, the mechanism is likely to be of poor quality, which means it might bend or go out of adjustment easily, requiring maintenance earlier than would otherwise be necessary.

[tstermitz]

A keyed simple-system flute is fully chromatic, and good ones have great intonation. That is true of antiques or modern instruments, given that you need to train up you lips for either case. (Same with boehm system, FWIW.)

The E & A notes might not be at the most "ideal positions dictated by physics", but they aren't all that bad. Do you have ears that are particularly sensitive to the slight quality differences in the notes? Have you developed your embouchure to the point where you can control tone quality?

The Siccama system flute was designed (as you suggest) to place the E & A notes larger and further down the tube by having a key-flap extension. They do have stronger E & A notes, but they are in the Pratten flute direction, so all their notes are fairly robust. I had one and it works as advertised, but I think I prefer the intimacy of fingers directly on the holes; noting that you can get accustomed to anything.

If you prefer the wooden flute, but aren't playing in sessions, smaller-holed models are cheaper than session blasters. Price-wise, you can get a good antique Irish Flute from around $2,000 and up, but you may need someone to evaluate it for you. I think that amount would buy a pretty decent boehm flute, not that I'm an expert at all.

[DrPhill]

Yamaha is a really reliable brand when it comes to student flutes (and they also make excellent higher end instruments too). Look at flutes in the 200 (all silver plated nickel), 300 (silver headjoint, nickel body) series, depending on your budget.

Thanks for that. It gives me a reference point. Probably a little above the budget I was thinking of, but maybe within reach (or within justification).

@tstermitz thanks, you raise good points. I fear, though, that if I need a rational justification, or need to attain a given level of skill then I am lost already.
I do find the e notes noticeably weaker than the. D and f. Maybe I could improve my lip and counter these differences but I’m interested in experimenting to find what works best for me. The siccama flutes do interest me, but they don’t seem common. I have only seen one maker advertising them. I haven’t seen one in the UIE.

Thanks

Phill

[Kirk B]

Try to find someone locally who is selling a used Yamaha student flute. I've seen them around for anywhere from $250 to $350 USD. There are lots of cheap Chinese concert flutes on eBay and they look tempting but I would stay away from those for the reasons that Flutern listed above. Especially when you can buy a good used brand-name student flute for about the same price.

[DrPhill]

Try to find someone locally who is selling a used Yamaha student flute. I've seen them around for anywhere from $250 to $350 USD. There are lots of cheap Chinese concert flutes on eBay and they look tempting but I would stay away from those for the reasons that Flutern listed above. Especially when you can buy a good used brand-name student flute for about the same price.

Good idea. Like this one? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394768504730 ... R76nx7K0Yg

[Flutern]

Good idea. Like this one? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394768504730 ... R76nx7K0Yg

Yes, that's a 200 series. The only thing about buying second hand is that the flute might need servicing, so you might want to take that into account when bidding... Or take a gamble

[Kirk B]

Right, there's always the chance of the flute needing some setup or a repad if you buy used. Also beware of prices that are too good to be true. I just followed a scam here in the US where someone had posted a 1964 Selmer MK VI alto sax for $1800.00, and posted it in several cities. That's a $5,000.00 sax all day long. Turns out they were trying to create a sense of urgency and get someone to send them the money digitally before someone else came and snatched it up. The photos they used for the listing were just stuff they grabbed of the internet from a previous listing somewhere. If you buy used make sure it's a local listing and you can actually put your hands on it.

[fintano]

I can tell you how Boehm flutes go in my local area. There are plenty of people on Craigslist selling name-brand (like Yamaha) student grade flutes for prices around $250 or so. Or even less. Almost certainly the instrument will require a setup from a competent repair person. Many of these instruments look to be 20-30 years old. Chances are they will need new pads, and that costs $300 or more.

If you don't already play the instrument, it can be difficult to evaluate Craigslist instruments. If you know someone who plays, you could get them to come along.

Around here there are music shops that do a lot of business with school bands and orchestras. That's where you will find those competent repair people. You can generally tell by the reviews that's it's this kind of place and not a high-end instrument supplier.

They will sell new and used instruments. They will happily sell you a decent student grade instrument. It won't be as cheap as the Craigslist flute, but the probability of it being playable will be much higher.

[DrPhill]

Thanks for that advice.
We may soon move house closer to civilisation - I think I will wait until then to see if I can pick up a second hand flute from a brick-and-mortar store - at the moment it is a long round trip to the nearest decent size town.

Phill