What is an Irish Flute (1) - Irish Flute vs Classical and Romantic Period Flutes

[RPereira]

(in the questions that follow, I am referring to fully chromatic flutes)

1. What is the main difference between the orchestral flutes from the Classical Period, the Romantic Period and the Irish flutes?

2. Is the Irish flute the same flute as the Romantic Period flutes?

3. Is the Irish flute a modern version of the flutes from the Classical/Romantic Periods before the invention of the Boehm flute?

4. Does the Irish flute have limitations when compared to the Romantic Period orchestral flute?

5. Is the fingering the same between an Irish flute and flutes from the Classical Period the Romantic Period?

6. What is a Modern Irish flute?

[PB+J]

(in the questions that follow, I am referring to fully chromatic flutes)

1. What is the main difference between the orchestral flutes from the Classical Period, the Romantic Period and the Irish flutes?

2. Is the Irish flute the same flute as the Romantic Period flutes?

3. Is the Irish flute a modern version of the flutes from the Classical/Romantic Periods before the invention of the Boehm flute?

4. Does the Irish flute have limitations when compared to the Romantic Period orchestral flute?

5. Is the fingering the same between an Irish flute and flutes from the Classical Period the Romantic Period?

6. What is a Modern Irish flute?

I'm no expert but I'll play along

1. Don't know what's meant by "classical period."
2. more or less yes but tuned to A 440
3. See one above: I think "yes"
4. I think less capable of a third octave
5. I think yes
6. A flute optimized for two octaves in A 440 and a lot of honk on the low D

[tstermitz]

Hmm. Well, an Irish flute used to play ITM music in typical keys in a typical session does not need to be fully chromatic. Basically, you only NEED to play in D & G (plus relatives), and possibly in A.

6. Starting with your last point, a modern Irish flute is usually based on either Pratten or Rudall style designs, improved or optimized (according to the craft and understanding of the maker) for playing in D & G over two octaves. With keys, a good modern flute can play chromatically into the third octave, but that might or might not be important to the design goals of the maker.

Playing chromatically into the third octave was essential to the originals.

5. Specific fingerings and key usage can vary, but the design of 19th C antique flutes has some common expectations, including some or all of the following:
- Venting E with the Eb key.
- Venting F# with the F-nat key.
- Use of C-nat key to make C# a little sharper.
- Use of C-nat key to provide a resonant C-nat with good intonation.
- Use of various keys and fingerings to keep third & fourth register notes playing in tune, or perhaps playing at all!

A modern ITM player usually doesn't vent E or F#, whether it helps or not. A modern ITM flute maker usually doesn't worry about third register keys and fingerings, although their flute might in fact play well in 3rd register. In my experience modern ITM flutes benefit from the C-nat key, to fix C/C# tone quality or intonation, especially on larger-holed flutes.

4. A modern "Irish flute" isn't limited for playing ITM music . It might be limited for playing baroque or 19th C music which often goes into the third register, up to G3 or maybe higher.

3 & 2. Yes. An "Irish Flute" is typically a conical, simple-system flute based on the Pratten or Rudall originals of 1830 - 1875. But, you can't say they are the same, as there is variation in the antiques as well as in the modern versions

1. Not sure what you mean by Classical period. I guess you're talking about the Baroque era. There is a lot of information out there about baroque flutes and playing, and I'm not at all qualified to speak to that. Typically the flutes of the baroque era are conical, small-holed, one-key flutes that play fully chromatically.

[Peter Duggan]

1. Don't know what's meant by "classical period."

1. Not sure what you mean by Classical period.

The time of Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven, during which flutes evolved from single-keyed, baroque-style models towards the 19th century types favoured for traditional music today.

http://www.oldflutes.com/classical.htm

[tstermitz]

That's a good article, Peter.

Looking into the categories of Romantic and Classical eras; there is some ambiguity depending on whether you are thinking of music or the arts more generally. Beethoven is early Romantic, right?

For this discussion, the one-key "traverso" flute is characteristic of the Classical & Baroque era. More keys were added from 1800 or a little earlier, and by 1820 orchestral flutes were 8-keyed, although you still had casual or folk flutes with one key.

I'm thinking of the Jane Austin novels, the Napoleonic wars, the regency era (1811 - 1820) and the rise of Britain as an economic and world power. Wealth flowed into England, and there was an increase in merchant and trade classes.

Who could afford an 8-key flute? And, who would actually be playing one?

I presume they were very expensive, completely out of the price range of a tradesman, and you had to have sufficient leisure and upper-class aspirations to learn art music. That means that flutes would be purchased by the aristocrat, leisure-full, mercantile and hangers-on (musicians & flute teachers?)... the atmosphere of Jane Austin's novels. Piano-forte lessons for the young ladies; flutes for the young gadabouts - easily transported to soirees or long-weekends at Brighton or a landed estate.

[Peter Duggan]

Looking into the categories of Romantic and Classical eras; there is some ambiguity depending on whether you are thinking of music or the arts more generally. Beethoven is early Romantic, right?

It's really more complicated than that when we're applying labels to a continuous evolutionary spectrum rather than defining hard-edged bands. It's not like composers woke up on, say, 1 January 1810 saying 'today I stop being Classical and become Romantic'! So many folk would consider Beethoven (born 1770) fundamentally Classical despite the progressive developments of his style which had such a huge influence on the Romantic period and beyond, whereas it's hard to see anyone seeing Weber (born 1786) as anything but Romantic. Then Schubert (born 1797) would generally be considered Romantic, but some might still argue for 'last of the Classicists'. By the time you get to Berlioz (born 1803) so very few years later, there's simply no argument to be had...

For this discussion, the one-key "traverso" flute is characteristic of the Classical & Baroque era. More keys were added from 1800 or a little earlier, and by 1820 orchestral flutes were 8-keyed, although you still had casual or folk flutes with one key.

It's tricky; while you'd generally expect one-keyed flutes for Mozart, I'd say the Classical period did outlive them.

[tin tin]

Ardal Powell’s fantastic book The Flute is the instrument’s definitive history and the answer to your questions. http://www.flutehistory.com/TheBook/index.php3

[RPereira]

Thank you so much for sharing you insights, knowledge and useful links regarding my questions, very much appreciated!