introduction/a daunting task

[rick alan]

Hi folks..

My name is Rick and I'm from Detroit USA, however I live in currently in Germany.

I'm a professional musician of 25 years. My main focus has been saxophone/boehm flute and I have useable doubles on acoustic guitar/ keyboards/vocals . I've been a "survival-mode" muso for as long as I can remember and I've been known to throw myself into the deep end in order to get a gig. I say "yes" to almost everything.

With that said,

I'm visiting the U.S. shortly and I recently contacted some of my old musician friends. One of them asked if I played Irish flute and I said "no, but I'm willing to learn." Long story short, I have a good gig on Irish flute on St. Paddy's Day and I've never played one or owned one.

I've been reading through the forums picking up a little advice. The most important thing for me is to get my hands on one and begin the embouchure change.

I don't want to spend 5k on an instrument yet, but I'm happy to spend up until about 1.5. I saw one listed in the forum for sale but, being a new user, I'm unable to contact the seller as I do not have the right to do so yet. If you have any suggestions on to where I can get a good used flute that won't frustrate me to tears (I'm used to pro instruments), please let me know!

Please respond to this with all of your "good lucks" and even a few "you're a fool" messages. I can handle it. And also, please respond if you have a recommendation for a good used pro flute to get me going (or better yet--something for sale). It has to be used because.. you know.. 6 weeks until the gig and I don't have 3-6 months to give a custom maker.

Cheers and thanks for reading..!

[Latticino]

In your shoes I'd just play the Irish music on your Boehm flute. Joannie Madden gets a great "Irish" tone on hers, and if you can get 10% of that and a couple of standard ornaments I doubt anyone will care whether you are using a traditional simple system flute. I'd be concentrating on learning the tunes and mastering a couple of ornaments rather than trying to find a flute and get used to a new embochure and fingering.

[rick alan]

Hi Stephen!

Totally a valid suggestion, however I'm used to making things difficult for myself. I appreciate your comment very much because that means I have a back-up plan if I fail in my mission.

I am starting to shed the tunes using a cheap tin whistle to at least get them under my fingers.. good fun!

[cac]

It is perfectly possible to play Irish traditional music on the Boehm flute. It is a matter of learning the embouchure and the 'ornaments" (cuts, taps, rolls). There are four sources on youtube for the sound you should aim for:
(1) Steph Geremia has an introductory video on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ6BGz1-UT4

(2) Lucie Périer has a youtube channel with a large amount of Irish music played well on the silver flute. Among this music are a few tunes she teaches (playing slowly at first).

(3) Sharon Creasey:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlqAR7kd7GI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz1ZhR-oX1w (her solo playing starts at about 5:35)

(4) Joanie Madden has a few videos on youtube where she plays the silver flute. In one of them she holds her own in terms of sound with Conal O'Grada. No mean feat.

I recommend listening to all four of these. They are outstanding trad flute players. Steph Geremia normally plays wooden flutes, but the other three only play the silver flute.

Beware that many people play Irish trad on the Boehm flute on youtube but not well. Stick with the above four and you won't go wrong. Perhaps others on the forum can suggest additional players who play the silver flute and can show you how to do it, but I can't think of any other players right now.

Chet

[rick alan]

Thanks Chet! I'll dig into the links tonight!

I get from the direction of your message that you don't think I can pull off some tunes on an Irish flute in 6 weeks?

Cheers..!

[Conical bore]

Just my $.02 opinion here, but if you only have six weeks, then I'd recommend sticking with the Boehm flute and spending 100% of that time getting used to the pulse of the various dance rhythms in Irish trad. Get the set list for the gig in advance, look up some good examples of trad players on YouTube, and work on nailing the pulse. It's dance music; you want to get people's feet tapping.

Any time you spend acquiring a conical bore flute and having to adjust to the different embouchure and slightly different fingering will be a distraction from that. You're not going to sound like an experienced trad player anyway, so don't put an additional obstacle in the way. A Boehm flute can play this music well. It's not the first choice of most players but it can work.

That said, I can understand the attraction and excitement of diving into something new. It's basically how I got here playing "Irish" flute instead of mandolin and guitar. If you do buy a flute before the gig, you could just do an honest evaluation of whether it would be a help or hindrance, and spend more time with it later after the gig.

[Moof]

If you really want to go down the route of buying a secondhand Irish flute in Germany, maybe make contact with some local musicians who play Irish trad? I'm sure there are plenty of them, and they should be well placed to know music stores and online groups where you're most likely to find instruments for sale.

[rick alan]

Would have been a great suggestion, however I'm packing already and fly on Sunday (and I have three gigs before then to keep me busy).

Man, these flutes don't grow on trees. I've never had this challenge finding used gear before! :0

[Nanohedron]

Would have been a great suggestion, however I'm packing already and fly on Sunday (and I have three gigs before then to keep me busy).

Man, these flutes don't grow on trees. I've never had this challenge finding used gear before! :0

We cannot stress enough that a good source counts. You can get cheap knockoffs online, but they are useless for proper music. Many of us, myself included, know this firsthand.

[rick alan]

Would have been a great suggestion, however I'm packing already and fly on Sunday (and I have three gigs before then to keep me busy).

Man, these flutes don't grow on trees. I've never had this challenge finding used gear before! :0

We cannot stress enough that a good source counts. You can get cheap knockoffs online, but they are useless for proper music. Many of us, myself included, know this firsthand.

There is a Byrne for sale used here on the forum. I've read that the Byrne flutes are quality and the user here seems to have been here for awhile. Do you think this is a good instrument for me to make my transition to? Or rather something else..?

[Loren]

Hi Rick,

The Byrne for sale is mine. It’s an excellent flute, though not the easiest, nor the most difficult flute to play, falls somewhere in the middle I’d say. But then, it depends as much on you and your embouchure as anything else.

My advice would be to see if you can find a Delrin Copley flute: It will sound good and play as easily as these flutes can, plus it will save you a bunch of money, and you won’t have to worry about caring for it. Also easy to resell and get your money back.

[tstermitz]

I second Loren's suggestion for a Copley.

I notice that there are a few used flutes available at the Irish Flute Store:

https://www.irishflutestore.com/collect ... usly-owned

The Windward & the Noy flutes are high-quality, and the prices reflect that. WRT any of the flutes at the IFS, read the fine print, in particular whether it plays at A440. Blayne is truthful, but you need to pay attention. He permits returns with a re-stocking fee.

[rick alan]

Hi Rick,

The Byrne for sale is mine. It’s an excellent flute, though not the easiest, nor the most difficult flute to play, falls somewhere in the middle I’d say. But then, it depends as much on you and your embouchure as anything else.

My advice would be to see if you can find a Delrin Copley flute: It will sound good and play as easily as these flutes can, plus it will save you a bunch of money, and you won’t have to worry about caring for it. Also easy to resell and get your money back.

Hi Loren! I'm glad you commented. I attempted to contact you through the "for sale" forums but I'm unfortunately too new here and do not have that privilege.

I'm not opposed to spending money on high-quality instruments, so I think I'll go the wood route as I'd just want to upgrade quickly anyways. Will the Byrne frustrate me to death (coming from Boehm) or do you think it's a fine landing place?

Cheers!

[rick alan]

I second Loren's suggestion for a Copley.

I notice that there are a few used flutes available at the Irish Flute Store:

https://www.irishflutestore.com/collect ... usly-owned

The Windward & the Noy flutes are high-quality, and the prices reflect that. WRT any of the flutes at the IFS, read the fine print, in particular whether it plays at A440. Blayne is truthful, but you need to pay attention. He permits returns with a re-stocking fee.

Thanks for the heads-up about the shop. He had a Murray for sale but I've gotten a little gun-shy about it because of the previous cracks. That's something I don't know if I want to risk.

The Winward & Noy both look like fine instruments, but I don't know if 2k is how high I will go for my first flute. Who knows, though. If nothing a little cheaper pops up on the radar I just spring on it. It's hard for me to say if those particular flutes are over-priced at the shop, a bargain or a fair value because I haven't followed the flute market and there are not that many out there to use as comparables. It makes me a little nervous. Saxes I can tell ya.

[kkrell]

I've a keyless wood Copley still for sale, even though it's in the Sold and Old section of the Used Instrument Exchange. Too busy to renew the listing, so the moderators moved it. I have another in a custom fit fancy case, plus a Delrin C & D (not for sale).

https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewt ... 5&t=114049

Oh, and it wouldn't hurt you to listen to the Wooden Flute Obsession CDs to help you go over to the dark side.

I agree with other posters though that you could probably coax the Boehm to do enough of your bidding, unless your show really requires you to go with the wood stick for looks.

Kevin Krell

ps: Windward flutes are often a choice for Boehm players, given the Forbes Christie's history with Brannen and Powell. I'd love to have a Peter Noy, but the price is a little high for me. They're totally worth it though.