Is this a known configuration for flute keys?

[LimuHead]

Hey flutefolk,

I want to get a keyed flute but don't like the standard 6 keyed versions. I particularly abhor the LH thumb Bb.

My current thoughts for my dream keyed flute would have:

- normal Eb key
- C natural thumbhole
- Long Bb touch key for RH 1st finger
- normal G# key

I'm stuck in deciding between long/short F natural. I'm tending toward favoring long F, but that's only what my brain thinks because I haven't actually played a flute with long/short F keys. Short F seems impractical to my inexperienced brain.

So my questions are:

- Is this a commonly known key configuration? If so, what is it called?

- What's your opinion on F nat? Long? Short? Both? Is any particular one more useful in ITM or jazz or classical, say?

- If it's not a common configuration, what are the drawbacks of such a configuration compared the standard 6 key?

I know it's a bit of an esoteric question, but I'm just looking for opinions, not expertise.

Let me know what you think.

I don't want to re-invent the wheel, if you know what mean.

Thank you!
Aldon

[kkrell]

All of those choices have appeared on flutes before.

AFAIK, the configuration does not have a unique name.

I don't care for a C thumbhole myself, and normally have found it on keyless flutes. It's probably unusual for it to be on an otherwise multi-keyed flute. Since that hole is going to be mostly covered except when playing C or any other useful venting, I hope your thumb falls into a comfortable position there and doesn't require any shifting around. I suppose you can always tape it closed.

Often a right-hand Bb touch is seen accompanied by the standard short Bb thumb key (2 ways to play).

Common to have both long & short F, but it's your choice. I think the short F gets more use, but there are probably tunes or other genres that might make the move to the short F awkward or limiting in terms of articulation.

"what are the drawbacks of such a configuration compared the standard 6 key?" Likely a hit to resale value, or even difficulty finding a buyer to whom the flute would appeal.

[jim stone]

A note: because my left wrist must now be very straight (wrist issue) I can't use the Bb key. I don't want a Bb key mounted on the rt hand side, because I'm afraid this will make too complicated the use of the rt hand side C natural key (a bit crowded with both keys). My own attempt at a solution is this. There is a perfectly good way to cross-finger Bb (XOX XXX), and it works well in providing fluid and agile fingering. I use that on both keyed and keyless flute. Also I practice half-holing the Bb hole. These take a bit of practice but you can have them down in a few days/weeks. I've been playing a bit of baroque flute, there is no Bb key, but the cross-fingering gives you Bach, Celtic tunes, et al. And with agility. Works on simple system flutes in general.

[Conical bore]

I have two 8-key D flutes and one 6-key low Bb flute, all with the standard key layout. Here are my preferences, for what it's worth:

I never use the short F key. The long F works fine for me with the tunes that need it, and it's one less thing to have to think about. I know there are theoretical reasons why one might want both, for ascending or descending note patterns, but it's just too confusing for me to bother with.

I wouldn't want a C thumbhole. I use the cross-fingered Cnat instead of the Cnat key because I like the slightly sharp "Piper's C" pitch with that fingering. That odd pitch for the C note is somewhat characteristic of Irish music, at least when played on whistles, flutes, and pipes. I only use the Cnat key for the C above B in the high register where it's easier to get a clean note that way.

I had trouble at first with the left thumb-operated Bb key, but getting comfortable with it was just a matter of practice, and making sure I had a solid enough flute hold to work the key. Figuring out how to use that Bb key actually helped improve my flute hold.

Finally, I think the best argument against unusual key layouts is the difficulty of resale, and the vastly reduced options for future purchases if you get used to it. Especially for flutes on the used market. I bought all three of my flutes used. I don't foresee buying any more flutes in the near future, but I would have plenty of options if I did, because I'm used to the standard key layout.

[Flutern]

When I was saving up for my first keyed flute, I wanted a layout exactly like yours : thumb hole for C nat and RH Bb. I was coming to the flute from the clarinet so that layout made much more sense to me. However, I ended up buying a second hand flute with the standard layout and learned to use the standard B flat: it's not difficult and I don't regret it.

I now have a flute with a double Bb (see picture): I like having the option to use the RH key, but to be honest I use it rather infrequently and I'd be fine without it. Some makers offer the option to have only the RH Bb without the LH one: you would save around $200, but one thing to keep in mind is that intervals involving a note played with the RH (say D, E or F) followed by Bb (or the other way around) are tricky to play if you only have the RH option. These come up quite frequently if you play classical music, and this is one reason why I don't use the RH Bb that often.

Regarding long and short Fnat, if I had to choose one, that would definitely be the long Fnat, because playing D to Fnat or Fnat to D is a pain if you only have short Fnat. That's very common in classical music. On the other hand, I do use the short Fnat key a lot, in ascending and descending passages: in general I use the short Fnat unless it's easier with the long one.

As for the C thumb hole, like others have said, it will make it more difficult to resell your flute if you go that route, and it will limit your options on the second hand market. Good modern Irish flutes usually have a very decent oxxooo for Cnat.

[tstermitz]

I agree with the previous posters. Stick with the standard and learn the Bb key. I agree that learning to do that improves your flute hold. At first it seems hard, but in the end it is very easy.

Purchase and resale will be much easier. 6 and 8 key used flutes in the normal configuration are readily available on the market; antique keyed flutes are half the price of a new keyed flute without a wait!

I always use the Long F because it is harder to transition smoothly from D to short F; but, I believe most ITM players (i.e. the ones who use keys) use the short F. The only time I've found I needed to have the short F available is in the 3-flat key signatures, i.e. Eb major and C-minor.

I have no understanding about why a C thumb hole would be beneficial, when you have the OXX OOO and OXO XXX available.

As Conical Bore notes the C and C# notes have multiple fingerings, and certain flutes have special requirements for these notes to be in tune or properly sonorous. For example, on large-holed flutes, it is common for the (non-keyed) C-nat to be sharp and the C-sharp to be flat, and those problems are improved by using the C-nat key for both notes. Maybe I'm weird, but I use the C-nat key for C#, but never play the keyed C-nat; I always use the OXO XXX C-natural because it enables C-rolls and makes the triplet runs snappy, poppity, and easy.

CB likes the sharpish C-nat, but that bothers me. Those fingerings are personal preference, and as I said sometimes depend on the needs of the actual flute.

[LimuHead]

Thanks for your thoughts folks!

I had no idea there was such a thing as both long AND short Bb together option! Cool.

Ideally, I guess, I should just get my mitts on a regular 6 key and see how I get along with it.

I appreciate your input!

Thanks again!
Aldon

[Terry McGee]

Indeed, Aldon, but be aware that the way to hold these flutes differs from how modern flutes are held. I cover this in a series of articles starting at:

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Gunn%20on%20Tone.htm

Dig in and raise questions!