Innovations

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Conical bore
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Re: Innovations

Post by Conical bore »

Damien Rogeau wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:54 am - Making a bass Irish flute
The main things you'll be dealing with for an Irish bass (or even alto) flute are finger stretch, weight, and size. With finger stretch on open tone holes probably the main limitation. There is a reason most modern Irish flute makers don't offer anything lower than a Bb flute, although I think Casey Burns makes one in A.

I'm 6'2" tall with proportionally large hands. The finger stretch is manageable on my six key Lehart low Bb flute, but I don't think I could handle the wider tone holes that would be required for a lower pitch like A or especially G.

The Lehart Bb is also huge for something played horizontally, at least compared to what we're used to with D flutes. I have to be careful waving it around that I don't knock something off the nearby table in my practice room. The Boehm "alto" flute in low G gets around this by folding the headjoint back around in a U-shape, and using keys to reach the appropriate tone hole length.

A low flute in traditional materials like Blackwood is also fairly heavy, because low pitch doesn't just require more length but also wider bore and increased barrel diameter I can manage holding my Bb flute horizontally for a few tunes, but it would be tiring for much longer. When I pick up my D flute after playing the Bb for a while, it feels like a piccolo!

So if you're going for a lower pitch than Bb in a bass flute while staying within the general confines of flute building (i.e. not a serpentine), then I think you might want a vertical design with a "swan neck' for embouchure. That is, if you can work out the finger stretch without keys.
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Re: Innovations

Post by ryarbrough »

How about:
1. a realistic artificial embouchere coupled with a realistic artificial air supply to provide repeatable testing and tuning for side-blown flutes.

2. a whistle with a windway and blade that can be adjusted for length, width, and angle of attack on the fly to allow the player to:
a. alter the dynamic range of the instrument during play to achieve flute-like expression, or
b. change the loudness or breathiness of the whistle or to even out the tone and volume between the first octave and the top of the second octave.

3. a tapered flute body with selectable and interchangeable internal bore perturbations to determine the effect of those perturbations on flute performance in a repeatable manner.

4. 3 above, but make the perturbations liquid, gas or powder-filled bladders with resonant frequencies outside the range of the flute to allow infinite adjustment.
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Re: Innovations

Post by oleorezinator »

Damien Rogeau wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:54 am Making a "Glissando" type of headjoint.
Making a dizi type of headjoint that could be activated or deactivated by a key.
Making a keyed tin whistle
3D printing flute
Making a bass Irish flute
These have been covered. Old hat
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Wooden keys? Why
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Damien Rogeau
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Re: Innovations

Post by Damien Rogeau »

oleorezinator wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:00 pm Wooden keys? Why
Aesthetics I guess, I was just writting whatever came through my mind at this stage.

Right now, I'm leaning towards making a flute out of unusable wood. We have some studies in progress in my school, they're basically turning rotten wood into something that can be used in instrument making (with a density of about 800 kg/m3). The idea is to have a minimal CO2 footprint, even lower than using local woods.
Tin whistle (2013) : Tweaked Generation Bb, Tweaked Thomann C, Le Coant D, Löfgren D/C
Low whistle (2013) : MK pro low D, Clover whistles A/G/F, PVC A/A phrygian dominant
Irish flute (2014) : B.Gabos bamboo Eb, 6 keyed É.Juilleret

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Conical bore
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Re: Innovations

Post by Conical bore »

Damien Rogeau wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:36 am
oleorezinator wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:00 pm Wooden keys? Why
Aesthetics I guess, I was just writting whatever came through my mind at this stage.

Right now, I'm leaning towards making a flute out of unusable wood. We have some studies in progress in my school, they're basically turning rotten wood into something that can be used in instrument making (with a density of about 800 kg/m3). The idea is to have a minimal CO2 footprint, even lower than using local woods.
Not to be shooting down your idea, but Isn't the idea of a minimal CO2 footprint satisfied already by using Bamboo for flutes?

That's a mature flute making technique, and you don't have to as much mechanical work like the cylinder shaping and bore reaming required for other wooden materials. Bamboo is basically a big weed that grows incredibly fast. I have a patch of it in one corner of my yard and it's more of a pest than an ornamental plant. Seems to me that if you're looking for the lowest CO2 footprint, then Nature is handing you a flute tube that's almost ready to go with Bamboo.

Maybe animal bones are another idea. There's the famous ancient vulture bone flute, but I wonder if a femur from a slaughtered food animal might have the right dimensions. A human femur would make an interesting flute, but I wouldn't know how to source that, legally. :)
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Damien Rogeau
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Re: Innovations

Post by Damien Rogeau »

I like bamboo too, I own one from Barna Gabos in Eb, sounds amazing and its lightness makes it even more comfortable to play.
Nevertheless, choosing bamboo require making big compromises. Can't really make a proper conical bore, can't add keys nor make a tuning slide. Also, the bamboo Barna uses comes from China, it's more suitable for making flutes.

As for the bones ... well I don't really like like the idea of working with bones, but that's just personal :)
Tin whistle (2013) : Tweaked Generation Bb, Tweaked Thomann C, Le Coant D, Löfgren D/C
Low whistle (2013) : MK pro low D, Clover whistles A/G/F, PVC A/A phrygian dominant
Irish flute (2014) : B.Gabos bamboo Eb, 6 keyed É.Juilleret

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Re: Innovations

Post by david_h »

I see the CO2 footprint as workshop/maker related rather than 'per flute'. As a player my flute has already lasted 12 years from new and could be played for decades after I have gone. Compared with getting to a session and back and the room being warm enough to play in it's CO2 footprint is minimal. For a maker the focus would be different - IIRC one maker already uses solar power.

However, I'm always aware that what I have in my hands used to be part of a slow growing tree from somewhere that natural resource management may not be sustainable. Innovative use of more local non-ideal woods sounds good. And would a thorough breakdown of CO2, biodiversity and environmental costs itself be an innovative add-on?
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Re: Innovations

Post by augurforever »

Hi!
I also play the saxophone and was always a bit annoyed about the struggle to play in other keys with more sharps and flats.
So here's my wish:
take a good fully keyed simple system flute with a Boehm style foot and side Bb, replace long F key with the F/F# mechanism of the Schwedler Reform Flute, replace the thumb Bb key with a similar mechanism like on the saxophone, where you can switch between B and Bb with a slight position change of the left forefinger, and add a mechanism for the G#/Ab key that enables an automatic closing when you're playing lower notes than G#.
The challenge could be to find a position of the keys where they dont disturb when playing in "normal" keys, and are still accessible with a tiny movement of the forefingers.

Ok, lots of key work required but the result could be a "modern reformed Reform Flute" with the charm and capabilities of a simple system flute and the ability to play effortless in all keys of the universe.

I own a Schwedler Reform Flute, unfortunately all foot keys are missing and 2 more keys are broken, so if anybody has an idea what to do with it...

Beo

Schwedler F:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gljxeb8fu4w3s ... 3.gif?dl=0
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Re: Innovations

Post by GreenWood »

This I noticed after placing exterior unfixed rings on a flute, is obvious enough, and relates to storing or playing in a flute:

The bands jam when the flute is played much, become loose when allowed to dry a lot.


So an idea is for flutemakers to incorporate one wooden ring like this in their flutes (could be visually unnoticeable) as a gauge to flute condition/dryness. If it breaks or jams maybe a good idea to have tight joins etc. reworked slightly if that is the condition the flute will be kept at, or if not then encouraged to dry some. If loose then keep better humidified.

Difficulty is that a maker cannot really judge just how much humidity or lack of, any flute is able to withstand, but the above might keep a flute within a comfortable or intended range.
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