inserting pin into key

[est]

So, somehow, while trying to wipe some moisture from around the 3rd hole with my t-shirt this morning, I managed to catch the pin on the shirt and pulled it out, leaving my G# key floating inside it's little home, luckily kept in place by the long F key.

I'm really struggling to get the pin inserted back again. Are there any tips from folks that can be used to make that happen more easily? I should warn you I'm both mechanically inept and otherwise pretty new to the wood flute in general.

The flute is a modern style with blocks of wood on either side of the rocking point for the key. I'm struggling how to get the pin to go inside the key itself, since it can move in several different directions. Also, what do folks use to push the pin into place? I'm not sure the thumb is best since it is a bit soft but I don't want to bend it trying to push into the key without having the hole in the right place.

[est]

Phew! I managed to get it in after paying a bit more attention to how far in the top of the key sits below to the top of the block. I wasn't lowering the key far enough to ever find the hole with the pin.

I was really struggling with the G# this morning, so I wonder now if the pin had actually worked it's way out a bit. Does that actually happen or did I just work a feat of magic whiping the bit of moisture off and catch the tiny hool just right?

[Terry McGee]

Sorry I'm too late to help, but well done on solving the problem!

If the ends on the pins are cut square across (to be flush with the far side of the slot when fully home), it's actually quite hard to convince the pins to go through the hole in the key - the hole in the key has to be lined up absolutely perfectly, or the pin can't enter or even detect the hole. So the question becomes how to line the holes up perfectly? I've had good success using a sewing needle of about the desired diameter. Put the key into the slot, and the needle into the hole, and move the key around until you feel the needle has found the hole in the key. Push the needle in as far as you can to align the holes as well as you can. Steadying the key against the slot in the block so you won't lose the alignment, pull the needle out, and (with your third hand) pop the pin into its place.

Many years ago, I gave up on doing the square and flush approach, and went to making the ends of the pins stick out beyond the block by about 1/2 the diameter of the wire, rounding the protruding ends of the pins to a neat, polished hemisphere. This still looks fine, and brings two great benefits to my mind:

1. It makes getting the pins in much easier, as the point of the pin only has to find the hole, instead of the entire flat end of the pin having to be perfectly aligned.

2. When you want to get a pin out, just push on the end of the bullet with the back of your thumbnail, or some other convenient hardish object. That gets the pin moving (which is often the tricky bit if it's been there for a few years!), and it's easy now to get your thumbnail under the bent-over end to withdraw it entirely.

I should add that that goes for all the pins apart from the Bb, which is naturally nicely pointed when filed off flush with the curved block.

[tstermitz]

Thanks Terry. While I can usually get the pin back in, sometimes it is hard to align. Your suggestion is great.

The spring on the key has to be compressed, which sometimes fights with your attempt to align.

Getting the pin out is sometimes hard, and again, compressing the spring helps ease the binding. I've had old flutes where the pins were really stuck due to corrosion or solidified grease or dirt. I finally got them out by heating the pin so that the gunk melted. Touching the end with a soldering iron solved that.

[Terry McGee]

The spring on the key has to be compressed, which sometimes fights with your attempt to align.

Indeed. I find it helpful to hold the pad end of the key down on its seat, where usually the indentations on the pad surface will "self-locate" on the seat, and then push down the middle or other end of the key to compress the spring to the point where you can detect the pin hole.

Getting the pin out is sometimes hard, and again, compressing the spring helps ease the binding. I've had old flutes where the pins were really stuck due to corrosion or solidified grease or dirt. I finally got them out by heating the pin so that the gunk melted. Touching the end with a soldering iron solved that.

Yep. I guess some of those old flutes we deal with haven't had those pins removed since they were first installed! And yes the heat from the soldering iron will help loosen up the old gunge. Be careful to clean any remaining solder off the heated tip of the iron (a wet scrap of rag works but don't scald yourself on the steam!). Lead loves alloying with silver, and it will gleefully migrate across the surface of your pin!

[est]

Sorry I'm too late to help, but well done on solving the problem!

Not a problem. I should have paid more attention in the first place, I think. But thank you for the reply all the same!

If the ends on the pins are cut square across (to be flush with the far side of the slot when fully home), it's actually quite hard to convince the pins to go through the hole in the key - the hole in the key has to be lined up absolutely perfectly, or the pin can't enter or even detect the hole. So the question becomes how to line the holes up perfectly? I've had good success using a sewing needle of about the desired diameter. Put the key into the slot, and the needle into the hole, and move the key around until you feel the needle has found the hole in the key. Push the needle in as far as you can to align the holes as well as you can. Steadying the key against the slot in the block so you won't lose the alignment, pull the needle out, and (with your third hand) pop the pin into its place.

Many years ago, I gave up on doing the square and flush approach, and went to making the ends of the pins stick out beyond the block by about 1/2 the diameter of the wire, rounding the protruding ends of the pins to a neat, polished hemisphere.

I was going to say that mine don't go all the way through, but I see that they actually do, but there is so little that you don't even notice them unless you look. So, this should work quite nicely next time around.

I noticed today, after an hour of practice, the pin for the G# had again moved out. Strangely, it wasn't after warming up with Bach (in Am so lots of G#s...and D# and Bb and pretty much all 6 keys) but my Irish tunes. So it doesn't seem to be related to using the G# key itself. Maybe I'm moving it around too much or doing something to cause vibrations or something. None of the other pins seem to have moved.

[Terry McGee]

OK, three thoughts. Let's take them in reverse order....

1. Which way do you have the pin in the G# block? I insert the pin from the "top" side of the flute - so that the head of the pin is closest to the line of the fingerholes. I figure if the pin does come loose, it's unlikely to drop out upwards!

2. Would you say that the spring on the G# is really weak? Too weak? Like at risk of not closing the key reliably when released? (The blow test is good here. Close off all the other holes in that section, and blow hard into one end. If you can lift the pad off the hole, the spring is set too lightly.) If so, strengthening the spring might also help keep the pin in place. If you decide to strengthen the spring, proceed very cautiously. You certainly don't want to risk snapping the spring, or its rivet (assuming it's riveted). And you don't want to end up with a G# key so hard to press you have to take up lessons at the gym. Enough to decide if this is an issue at this point, and we can discuss how to proceed if it is.

3. I know you probably don't want to pull the key out again just yet, but it would be good to take the key off, and just try the pin in the hole by itself. Is it really loose or fairly snug? Can you shake it out of the hole by holding the section with the pin head side down and shaking or tapping the section? If it's really loose (and the spring tension seemed OK in the paragraph above), it would help to tighten the pin fit slightly. Again, this is a "proceed with ultimate caution" moment. Bend the pin by the smallest amount you can, and try it again in the hole. Still too loose? Bend it a tiny bit more and try again. A gentle and invisible curve is what we are aiming for, not a pronounced kink in the middle! When the pin is slightly curved, pushing it back into the hole forces it to straighten out. That tiny amount of side pressure generated should keep it in place when you refit the key.

Let us know what you find.....

[est]

OK, three thoughts. Let's take them in reverse order....

1. Which way do you have the pin in the G# block? I insert the pin from the "top" side of the flute - so that the head of the pin is closest to the line of the fingerholes. I figure if the pin does come loose, it's unlikely to drop out upwards!

2. Would you say that the spring on the G# is really weak? Too weak? Like at risk of not closing the key reliably when released? (The blow test is good here. Close off all the other holes in that section, and blow hard into one end. If you can lift the pad off the hole, the spring is set too lightly.) If so, strengthening the spring might also help keep the pin in place. If you decide to strengthen the spring, proceed very cautiously. You certainly don't want to risk snapping the spring, or its rivet (assuming it's riveted). And you don't want to end up with a G# key so hard to press you have to take up lessons at the gym. Enough to decide if this is an issue at this point, and we can discuss how to proceed if it is.

3. I know you probably don't want to pull the key out again just yet, but it would be good to take the key off, and just try the pin in the hole by itself. Is it really loose or fairly snug? Can you shake it out of the hole by holding the section with the pin head side down and shaking or tapping the section? If it's really loose (and the spring tension seemed OK in the paragraph above), it would help to tighten the pin fit slightly. Again, this is a "proceed with ultimate caution" moment. Bend the pin by the smallest amount you can, and try it again in the hole. Still too loose? Bend it a tiny bit more and try again. A gentle and invisible curve is what we are aiming for, not a pronounced kink in the middle! When the pin is slightly curved, pushing it back into the hole forces it to straighten out. That tiny amount of side pressure generated should keep it in place when you refit the key.

Let us know what you find.....

Wow, some great tips here.

#1 sounded perfect, but, alas, it was inserted in the correct direction. So gravity isn't the culprit here.

#2 seems to not be the problem either. It's 3 pieces with a single piece for the 6 fingers, and removing the foot, I was able to stop it with fingers and my leg and had serious trouble breathing air through the embouchure hole (mouth covering it)

I will attempt #3...but I must admit that this makes me more than a little nervous, so I'll have to wait on it for a bit. If I were to break or ruin the pin...then I have no idea how to replace it at this point.

So, since I first had the pin get pulled out originally, I have noticed that it does work it's way out within an hour or so practice. I probably haven't had a practice without a few tunes using a G# in a while, but I really think it's probably the vibrations from either my fingers against the flute body while playing or something else, because just pressing the key over and over again doesn't seem to cause any noticeably change. So, bending it would probably work...

[Terry McGee]

I will attempt #3...but I must admit that this makes me more than a little nervous, so I'll have to wait on it for a bit. If I were to break or ruin the pin...then I have no idea how to replace it at this point.

I would do this by simply gripping the pin at each end with silversmithing pliers and bending slightly, but it seems not every home has those! Alas, we live in strange times!

I did try gripping it at the head end with a single pair of pliers, and bearing down on the desk a little to curve the pin, stopping when I could make out a slight curve (which should be all you need). Definitely tightened the pin in the hole, and didn't affect the operation of the key when remounted (because the pin has to straighten to go into the hole). Again, the test is to put the pin in the hole without the key in place, and tap the body of the flute on the desk in the direction that should encourage the pin to come out.

If there's a woodwind repairer or a silversmith/jeweller in town, they could probably do it for you at very little cost.

[est]

If there's a woodwind repairer or a silversmith/jeweller in town, they could probably do it for you at very little cost.

There is a tech that a classical flute player recommended for simple repairs (she goes to Atlanta for more involved repairs). I'll check to see if he's still doing work in the area.

Thanks for your insightful suggestions.