Keyed Flute-Pipers Grip

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Re: Keyed Flute-Pipers Grip

Post by Sedi »

Even with piper's grip there is no need to rest the flute on the shoulder.
Here's another example. Interesting is -- in his older videos, John Wynne still does rest the flute on the shoulder. In the latter one, he doesn't but still uses piper's grip. Like Tom Doorley, he only uses piper's grip for the upper hand -- in his case the right hand, as he is left-handed.
https://youtu.be/CLH4JNBq3F8
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Re: Keyed Flute-Pipers Grip

Post by Loren »

Sedi wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:29 am Even with piper's grip there is no need to rest the flute on the shoulder.
Here's another example. Interesting is -- in his older videos, John Wynne still does rest the flute on the shoulder. In the latter one, he doesn't but still uses piper's grip. Like Tom Doorley, he only uses piper's grip for the upper hand -- in his case the right hand, as he is left-handed.
https://youtu.be/CLH4JNBq3F8

Yes, the shoulder support variation of the piper’s grip is one of several, and the only one I singled out because McGoldrick was specifically mentioned in a previous post. The other variations are less stable, but doable, which is why some players suffer the shoulder support version. My intention however was to point out that if one chooses to use the piper’s grip, the flute on shoulder variation is the one that is potentially the most physically damaging, and therefore should probably be avoided.

Also of note, many modern wood flutes have headjoint that is shorter on the end cap side of the embouchure hole, making the shoulder support even tougher and more uncomfortable. :o
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Re: Keyed Flute-Pipers Grip

Post by Sedi »

Very true. From what I read online, McGoldrick already does suffer from shoulder and neck problems.
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Re: Keyed Flute-Pipers Grip

Post by Nanohedron »

Sedi wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:29 am Even with piper's grip there is no need to rest the flute on the shoulder.
This is correct. It never even occurred to me until I'd already had years in and eventually saw it for myself; tried it out of curiosity, and tossed that idea right out the window.

My grip is for all practical purposes exactly like what you see in the vid I posted, and I've never had stability issues; do it right, and you're solid as a rock. I'm not recommending this grip, but I am saying that if it's intuitive or for some reason better for you, it's perfectly viable on its own terms, and you will be in very good company. I valiantly tried the standard or so-called Rockstro grip, and nerve issues prevented me from going that route. Fortunately, in a Trad environment there's a lot of room for departure from the prescribed.
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Re: Keyed Flute-Pipers Grip

Post by Loren »

Sedi wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:04 pm Very true. From what I read online, McGoldrick already does suffer from shoulder and neck problems.

Yeah, I mean when I had to switch to piper’s grip I got super frustrated initially, so I tried the shoulder thing......for about 30 seconds :lol: I just thought “nah, I’m not gonna mess myself up like that”.

Pipers grip can definitely work, but life will be a whole lot easier if one can stick with the standard grip: much better support, and you can purchase/play any standard keyed flute out there.

Piper’s grip specific flutes are pretty uncommon in the wild, so your used keyed flute purchasing options are super limited, unless you are one of those people who can make your Piper’s grip work on a typical keyed flute, which for me at least was super uncomfortable, barely doable, and led to lots of fluffed notes due to missing a proper seal too often. But hey, there are far better players out there than I, and where there’s a will there’s a way. Personally though, at least with instruments, I prefer easy, comfortable, and ergonomically correct, although any flute hold is going to be sub-optimal with regards to the latter, however some grips and instruments are more sub-optimal than others.
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Re: Keyed Flute-Pipers Grip

Post by Loren »

Nanohedron wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:15 pm
My grip is for all practical purposes exactly like what you see in the vid I posted, and I've never had stability issues; do it right, and you're solid as a rock.
Interesting. We must be doing something differently grip wise. Or equally likely you’re just a better man :lol:

I’m not dropping flutes, but I really have to have things lined up just right with pressure/counter pressure between my thumbs, pinkie and chin, or things get dicey. Even with my best grip, if someone at a session bumps my right arm from behind, that flute is gonna go flying. With standard grip that sort of jostling would be a complete non-event.

Maybe I just need to hang out at wimpier sessions :tomato:
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Re: Keyed Flute-Pipers Grip

Post by Nanohedron »

Loren wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:38 pm
Nanohedron wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:15 pm
My grip is for all practical purposes exactly like what you see in the vid I posted, and I've never had stability issues; do it right, and you're solid as a rock.
Interesting. We must be doing something differently grip wise. Or equally likely you’re just a better man :lol:
I'm guessing it's the former, because the latter I am decidedly not.

Loren wrote:I’m not dropping flutes, but I really have to have things lined up just right with pressure/counter pressure between my thumbs, pinkie and chin, or things get dicey. Even with my best grip, if someone at a session bumps my right arm from behind, that flute is gonna go flying. With standard grip that sort of jostling would be a complete non-event.

Maybe I just need to hang out at wimpier sessions :tomato:
Well, we'd have to do a real-time comparison, because I'd never really given what I do any hard thought until now. I can only go from memory, and it's no secret that I don't play flute anymore. But what I recall is 1) the upper thumb position is key, and 2) I never had to consciously align much; habit took the driver's seat, because what worked became that ingrained. I can assure you that I never felt as if I were doing a high-wire act, gripwise. Or maybe I'm just dull to danger.
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Re: Keyed Flute-Pipers Grip

Post by Sedi »

It's probably also a question of what one is used to. I had stability issues when finally switching to the "correct" hand position for my right hand with the thumb behind and not below the flute.
Originally I had a background in classical flute so started out with Rockstro. Then played a lot of low whistle so switched to piper's grip also on flute. Now I am mostly back to Rockstro but sometimes switch when a tune has a lot of ornamentation with the left (upper) hand. For classical tunes (Bach, Mozart, etc) I only use Rockstro.
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Re: Keyed Flute-Pipers Grip

Post by Loren »

Yes, I suppose it is a relativistic thing for me: Going from a more secure grip to one that is still perfectly functional, but somewhat less secure.

I imagine if one starts with the Piper’s grip it probably feels rock solid more or less from the outset.

Probably doesn’t help in my case that I spend a lot of time with slippery delrin flutes in hand, but I can’t bring myself to rough them up with 100 grit sand paper. Been waiting for a radioactive spider to bite me, but so far no luck.


Anyway..... for the OP: If buying used, you could look for a keyed flute that already has post mounted keys, which might be less problematic for playing piper’s grip than a non-custom flute with block mounted keys.
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Re: Keyed Flute-Pipers Grip

Post by Madpiper13 »

Thanks for all the reply’s on how other players navigate a regular keyed flute. I’m especially pleased this lead into a discussion on the different methods of balancing the instrument while using piper grip; which I have found somewhat challenging. Pipers grip for me hasn’t been a choice, (I am a piper & low whistle player), but I’ve got a fused joint on the middle of my left index finger which makes a regular grip impossible. Still trying to find the perfect thumb position I think will be the key for me.
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