Barna Gabos keyless F dogwood flute review

[Flutern]

Thanks Loren for answering my question in detail. I'm quite surprised to hear that hair color is used to dye flutes and recorders: it's the last thing that would have come to my mind

[NicoMoreno]

I believe the photos on that dogwood flute from John Gallagher are not capturing the correct color properly. I have a B (8 keyed) flute from John, and it looks exactly the same in some light, but it is actually more reddish brown most of the time / in natural light. That said, I believe he uses an acid staining, rather than hair dye. It's been... a long time since I got it, so I don't recall what he said.

My flute has been pretty well stable, probably no worse than a boxwood flute might be. I probably do need to oil it and play it more, though. I never experienced the really tight swelling, but early on I did have some keys stick due to slight swelling. John uses Virginian dogwood, so maybe it's different than the dogwood Barna Gabos uses?

[Loren]

I believe the photos on that dogwood flute from John Gallagher are not capturing the correct color properly. I have a B (8 keyed) flute from John, and it looks exactly the same in some light, but it is actually more reddish brown most of the time / in natural light.

Entirely possible, John G. is very experienced and the color in the photo is not color I’d expect him to choose, or end up with inadvertently. OTH, always possible the person who ordered the flute asked for it to be black so that it would look more like blackwood, and I have seen light colored woods dyed/stained the color in the photo. Maybe the former or current owner will chime in at some point.

That said, I believe he uses an acid staining, rather than hair dye. It's been... a long time since I got it, so I don't recall what he said.

Very well could be, the two methods produce similar, but not exactly the same result. Impossible to tell from the picture. The Olwell flute in my avatar picture is acid stained boxwood and it is a dark reddish brown color like you describe. It’s a lovely finish, and a killer flute, of course The acid staining process, which I have never done, is apparently a PITA, so it’s not real common these days, but there are makers who still do it and the Gallagher flute could certainly have been colored that way.

My flute has been pretty well stable, probably no worse than a boxwood flute might be. I probably do need to oil it and play it more, though. I never experienced the really tight swelling, but early on I did have some keys stick due to slight swelling.

Interesting thing here: While epoxy sealing the bore and end grain should eliminate the tenon swelling and ovaling issues, it would have no effect on stabilizing the key blocks. OTH I would expect resin stabilizing a flute would likely prevent both problems. I’m speculating though as I have no experience with resin stabilizing flutes, the only direct experience I have is pressure oiling with hardeners, and epoxy coating bores.

Who’s gonna do the comparison experiment? G.E.?

[Loren]

Thanks Loren for answering my question in detail.

Happy to help

I'm quite surprised to hear that hair color is used to dye flutes and recorders: it's the last thing that would have come to my mind

Surprised the heck out of me too! When it was time for me to learn how to dye recorders and the boss pulled out the hair colors (you actually mix them), I was Like, Loren, how did you set out to learn flute making and end up in cosmetology school???

It’s a bit of a crazy process too: You put the instrument piece on the lathe (set to turn very slowly), mix up the colors with peroxide, and then you paint the hair color on while the piece turns on the lathe. The number of minutes depends on the how dark a shade you are going for. Thing is, there is a very specific brush technique for keeping the piece wet and the dye evenly distributed, otherwise you end up with very unprofessional looking streaks and or blotches. If that occurs then you have to repeat the process and dye the instrument an even darker and usually less desirable color. This is how sometimes, as a rookie, you end up with black I only made that mistake once or twice early on, but it can happen.

Dying instruments that way is a messy, time consuming process that requires constant focus and attention in order to avoid mistakes. Not real glamorous, but once the instruments are oiled and buffed, you get the satisfaction of seeing a really wonderful result from your efforts. It’s a great feeling. I miss doing that kind of work.

[Geoffrey Ellis]

Interesting thing here: While epoxy sealing the bore and end grain should eliminate the tenon swelling and ovaling issues, it would have no effect on stabilizing the key blocks. OTH I would expect resin stabilizing a flute would likely prevent both problems. I’m speculating though as I have no experience with resin stabilizing flutes, the only direct experience I have is pressure oiling with hardeners, and epoxy coating bores.

Who’s gonna do the comparison experiment? G.E.?

Resin stabilizing depends a lot on the wood type and how much resin it absorbs. If the wood absorbs a little bit of resin, it helps with stabilizing in degree, but I've still be able to track some movement of the wood after it has been worked. If you utilize a wood that is highly absorbent of resin (maple is by far the best in my opinion--it is already quite hard and it will drink up a ton of resin) the end result is extremely stable. It's not going anywhere. This would certainly extend to all parts of the flute including key blocks. Paddler has stabilized an extensive variety of woods as well and he is much more systematic and scientific about it than I am and might even have some data on the different absorption rates of different woods. I've done it to maple, cherry, walnut, boxwood, blackwood, kingwood, vera wood, hawthorne, curly douglas fir, curly redwood, redwood burl, plum, dogwood, osage orange, and probably a few others I'm forgetting about. In a number of cases early on in my experiments, I did it all wrong and got marginal results. In the case of oily tropical hardwoods it was a complete waste of time and actually detrimental to the wood. Non-oily domestic hardwoods are perfect for it, however.

[Nanohedron]

In the case of oily tropical hardwoods it [epoxy infusion] was a complete waste of time...

This I would expect.

Tropical hardwoods have been the material of choice for woodwinds not first because of their beauty - an admitted plus - but because their resinous nature greatly slows absorption, contributing much to dimensional stability. If fatwood were a viable flutewood, I'm sure we'd have been exploiting that resource long ago, and very likely have a different visual aesthetic wherein we would sing the praises of its more translucent types.

Epoxy does a job analogous to oils and resins, but if the resins are there already, it's hard to infuse something for which there's no room.

[Geoffrey Ellis]

In the case of oily tropical hardwoods it [epoxy infusion] was a complete waste of time...

This I would expect.

You would have expected that I could deduce that in advance of making a few totally pointless experiments And yet in a not-very-shining moment of misguided curiosity, I wasted a certain amount of wood and resin to find out what just about anyone could have told me in advance. Ah, well...we're never too old to learn!

[Nanohedron]

Ah, well...we're never too old to learn!

Amen.