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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:54 am 
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There's a Wilkes four key Rudall style flute for sale at the Irish flute store just now:
https://www.irishflutestore.com/collect ... dall-4-key


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:49 pm 
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Oddly modified foot joint.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:25 am 
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Oddly modified foot joint. Loren


Yes, strange. I wonder why one would do that, enlarge just that hole on a modern 1980's flute?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:01 am 
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Hmmm, can I put forward a suggestion that anyone should feel free to shout down.

Chris is a keen enthusiast for the Nicholsonian era style of flutes. Nicholson the Elder "opened up the holes" on his old Astor flute. This would have sharpened the body notes but left the foot notes dramatically flatter. Not easy to "open up" the foot note holes as they have keys.

Some players can do what I call the "offset jet thing" which effectively brings these low notes up to pitch by moving all the energy into the second octave, while still preserving the illusion of the bottom octave. Our scientific explanation that explains how that trick works is the "missing fundamental":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_f ... y%20itself.

But imagine you have one of these flutes but find you can't do the trick? The flute has only a D foot, so why not open up the size of the
D hole (where the old C# key would have been) to get the low D up to pitch? I reckon that is what we are seeing here.

Any alternative readings?

And of course, the telling question. Is the enlargement enough to bring the low D up to pitch without resort to the offset jet thing?


Last edited by Terry McGee on Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:15 am 
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Oh, and the reference to an "expertly repaired crack in the barrel" is yet further support for my assertion that we cannot afford to metal line heads and barrels, because wood shrinkage in dry weather (and I haven't even mentioned Climate Change) on metal-lined sections will cause splitting. C'mon on, guys, the science on this couldn't be more clear.

Or perhaps the splitting is due to those Jewish space lasers we've been hearing about lately that are allegedly responsible for the Californian wild fires?

Pardon my mirth....


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:45 am 
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Agreed Terry, seems an obvious attempt to correct for a player who couldn’t play “the flat foot” tuning, or at least didn’t want to.

When I said “Oddly modified” I didn’t mean the “why” it was done, but rather “How” :wink: I’ve never seen that exact solution to this issue executed on flute before. Looks a bit like some rogue piper got loose and had their way with that tone hole :D


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:17 am 
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Loren wrote:
rogue piper

Redundant?

Best wishes.

Steve

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:50 am 
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Steve Bliven wrote:
Loren wrote:
rogue piper

Redundant?

Best wishes.

Steve


:lol: Touché!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:16 pm 
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Terry McGee wrote:
Oh, and the reference to an "expertly repaired crack in the barrel" is yet further support for my assertion that we cannot afford to metal line heads and barrels, because wood shrinkage in dry weather (and I haven't even mentioned Climate Change) on metal-lined sections will cause splitting. C'mon on, guys, the science on this couldn't be more clear.

I'm all for science-based reasoning. Science tells us that if we abuse a wooden musical instrument by storing it in a too-dry environment there is a high chance it will crack, and an even higher chance if there are materials with different expansion properties like metal and wood. But we do live in an age where this knowledge is freely available. We can control how our flutes are stored and carried, with the only risk being brief exposure at a session or gig to non-ideal humidity (if we're ever able to get back to doing that).

I control humidity in my house with room humidifiers. I started doing that years ago when I began buying more expensive acoustic guitars, along with concern for my S.O.'s expensive fiddle. My current Aebi flute with a fully lined headjoint was bought secondhand. It was made in Switzerland, purchased by a player in Italy who played it for years, then sold it to me where it traveled halfway across the world to the Pacific Northwest. The flute has survived three fairly distinct climate zones and one hazardous multi-stage trip by air without cracking. Maybe it will someday. If it does I'll have it repaired.

It's not the end of the world if a flute cracks, and some folks will prefer the tone of a lined head. Lined vs. unlined headjoint is probably a more significant difference in tone than the various wood species commonly used, so why remove that option? Some of us like to live dangerously. :D


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:07 am 
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Quote:
When I said “Oddly modified” I didn’t mean the “why” it was done, but rather “How” :wink: I’ve never seen that exact solution to this issue executed on flute before. Looks a bit like some rogue piper got loose and had their way with that tone hole :D


Aye, I doubt that Chris Wilkes has modified the foot joint hole, probably someone who has the owned the flute.

Quote:
Oh, and the reference to an "expertly repaired crack in the barrel" is yet further support for my assertion that we cannot afford to metal line heads and barrels, because wood shrinkage in dry weather (and I haven't even mentioned Climate Change) on metal-lined sections will cause splitting. Terry


Yes, wood shrinkage on metal lined head joints and barrels = cracks. Yet I agree with Conical bore, it's not the end of the world. I have a Rudall Carte & co., 124 years old, an Olwell 18 years old, and a Wilkes 20 years old with no cracks. Swedish winters can be very dry, central heating is rife. I've only oiled the Olwell and Wilkes once or twice, don't always swab them out after playing. Had a Murray, 3-4 years old which came from Calif. to Sweden, with a lined barrel that cracked though. I think a lot can depend on the age, curing, storage of the raw wood used? At Sam's workshop the crack expanded so much that the flute just disappeared.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:08 pm 
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Chris did this exact thing on the foot joint of my keyed Bb flute of his manufacture. Looks very odd (unsightly?) but does the trick.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:21 pm 
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Figured the hole was the place you screw in the chillum.
But that's just me....


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:55 pm 
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Terry McGee wrote:
Oh, and the reference to an "expertly repaired crack in the barrel" is yet further support for my assertion that we cannot afford to metal line heads and barrels, because wood shrinkage in dry weather (and I haven't even mentioned Climate Change) on metal-lined sections will cause splitting. C'mon on, guys, the science on this couldn't be more clear.

Indeed, were I to get a new flute it would be unlined now; too many cracked lined heads in my wake. The timbre and agility differences - such as they are, if any - aren't enough for me to go with lined anymore.

jim stone wrote:
Figured the hole was the place you screw in the chillum.

The lengths one will go to in the name of psychoacoustics...

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:53 pm 
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:lol: Certainly improves the way I sound!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:11 am 
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Looking at Sweden based flute maker Tim Adam's flutes https://www.adams.se/flutemaker/ it looks like he made this type of modification part of his design.

Not sure if this is the same or opposite, but when I received my Solen Lesouef flute last year I had a really hard time playing the bottom D in tune - it was always sharp and it felt unnatural to me (old dog with 20 years of fluting habits) to lip it down so much, as I want to push that bottom D. No issues with the other notes. So eventually Solen made me a new foot joint that is 5mm longer and I'm a happy fluter.
And I kept the extra flute joint, which I now understand can be used as a chillum :)


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