Hello
I am looking for advice around a particular 19th C. flute which I may buy.
I am remote from the instrument, so can't try it out.

It's a Boosey & Co. Pratten Perfected from 1895.
It has SL of 570mm and C#-Eb of 244mm
Terry McGee classes flutes with these figures as "slightly high pitch" ( A445 HZ )

I am waiting for the seller to send me an audio/video of the flute so I can hear the scale ( Skype audio was very poor ).

Has anyone had experience of a very late 19th C. Pratten Perfected in terms of:
Slide extension needed to play at A440?
Tuning/intonation at A440?
Responsiveness at A440?

I have a well focussed embouchure, so if the scaling at A440 ( don't know how to word that ) is good, I expect to be able to fill the Pratten.
I'd love to hear your experience of this class of flute at A440

Kind Regards
Pat

Hi Pat, I don't have an instrument the same, but I do have a D'Almaine from 1827 or so. It's perfect at A440. But that's not the point. If you search the forums archives here there is a huge amount of discussion about sounding length measurements being a rough guide only to pitch, as there are so many interacting factors. It's really only useful for a rough assessment.

Given the date of yours (or soon to be yours) it would be unlikely to be designed for A440 at that decade. Sure you can pull the slide out further if it's a A445 instrument, but it is unlikely to be optimal, which is, I think, your question.

As per your request, you would need to find somebody with an identical flute to ask. Much as I completely despise Facebook, there is a good Flute Historical group there with many very learned people, many with large collections of important instruments. So perhaps I can point you there? I think even Robert Bigio participates.

Andrew

Andro
Thanks, I appreciate your reply. Yes I am familiar with the Flute History group. ( Jem Hammond and others have been great source of advice and knowledge )
"optimal...." what does that mean really, I don't need every note to be perfectly in tune.

I have a RudallCarte from 1888 or so that needs the slide at 19mm to play at A440, but it's great ( for Irish music ).
Sure the F# is flat and I think the C# also, and there's probably an acoustic anomaly around the bore where the extended slide leaves a gap? but when I and the flute are warmed up its great.
( If I push the slide in and play around Eb it sings more, so for me its optimal around 8-10mm )

Terry talks about a HZ needs a mm, so a flute designed for A445 might need an extra 5mm to play in concert nowadays.... depending on embouchure flexibility and who knows what else.
I guess I am gambling on having the slide out a piece ( somewhere between 15-19mm maybe ) and hoping that the flute will be in tune enough to play Irish trad ( like my Rudall Carte and countless other old flutes brought back to life since the 70's )

If so I can always get an extended barrel made for it.

Thanks again
Pat

My PP Boosey is an early model and has a SL of 580mm. Plays at 440 slide extension of a mm or two.

I'm actually going have a look at a friends Boosey and Co 7xxx (SL of 570mm) this week. Currently not playable but I'm going to try get a sound out of it.

Will let you know how I get on.


D

Thanks so much.
My target flute might need 19mm slide extension.

Any idea on the implications of that ?
The intonation is fine at 440
Thanks again.
Pat

I have owned and played a number of original Pratten flutes, from the initial Hudson flutes to the Boosey variety (all made by John Hudson).
Great flutes.....except for one thing: In my experience, the C# is woefully flat unless you use a couple of keys to vent it sharper and into tune.
Again, my experience. But I have had at least two dozen of the flutes through the years.

Hi Pat,

My Boosey Pratten was finished by John Hudson on 30 September 1881, so it is a bit older than the one you are looking at. The sounding length is the same, but centre of C# to Eb is 248mm. I would expect them to be the same dimensions.

Plays very nicely at A440 with the slide extended 12mm. Let me know if you need anything else.

Cheers
Andrew Le Blanc
Melbourne

Thanks Andrew and all.
It's too late. I went ahead and bought it.
It's in Germany now on the way here.

( I had a couple of videos made of the seller playing it, and it will be grand for my purposes )
I agree the C# might be flat, but so it is on my RudallCarte also.
Oh well if it gets here, in one piece I won't have to die wondering.

Thanks people for sharing your experience.
Stay safe.
Pat

Good decision, Pat. I find that venting the C# with the C nat key as intended, pulls the note up to pitch.

When it arrives, I'd be curious about the length of the body section. Mine measures 337.5mm which is longer than older ones, typically 320mm. So do let me know.

Anyone else with a Boosey Pratten and a ruler, I'd be interested to hear also.

cheers
Andrew Le Blanc

Pat, I have a late one whith almost exactly the same measurements. 571mm and 243mm.

Plays at A-440 with the tuning slide at about 18-19mm.

Slightly less responsiveness than with the tuning slide all the way in.

I have Boosey PP serial # 6943, year is est. 1861
SL = 576.2mm
#C-Eb = 247.65mm
A440 approx. 15-17mm

I also play it primarily with a custom made HJ by Chris Wilkes which lengthens the SL:
SL 584.2 mm
A440 slide ext. 6-7mm

Jofo & Rama - can you post the length of the body section?

274.6mm (excluding tenons)
320.675 (incl. tenons)
131.7mm foot joint

Hi guys
Thanks for the Pratten responses.

Anyone interested in a show and tell specifically for Pratten Perfected Fanciers ?

I find its easy to fill, and has unlocked my playing, but I find while I can play it at home in the quiet, its hard to feel completely in tune in a session. Anyone recognize that transition ? Its like I am a novice again ( tho the sessions have been loud lately so the flute does get drowned out ),

I think last I checked the tuning is better than the Rudall, and the appropriate venting does bring the C's into tune. The D doesn't have a thump but is easily sounded, ( In fact if I push the D it is sharp, getting used to that ) and there's a searing ferocity in the middle notes.

Pat

For practicing the C# vented by the C-natural key...

I recommend the Concertina Reel, as it has lots of rocking phrases that alternate with repetition on the C#.