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Copley Vs Somers Vs M&E: Wich one should I buy?
Copley keyless 44%  44%  [ 7 ]
Garry somers keyless 44%  44%  [ 7 ]
M&E keyless 13%  13%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 16
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 9:31 pm 
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First of all, hello everyone, i'm new here, and to context: i'm from spain , barcelona (so even if i can understand english perfectly, both written and speaking, i don't have practice wrhiting it myself, so sorry about that) , and i love irish and celtic music and i've been playing (all selftaughted and by ear) the tin and low whistles since i was 15-16 (now i'm 34), and my most recent buy was a MK pro Low D whistle, that, to me at least, has that unique tone/sound that is something between a classic low and a irish flute, and fits perectly in sessions or covers from irish trad, which is what I play most of the time (chieftains, lunassa, rad songs from sessions etc).

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And because i've been liking so much that "flute sound" of the mk pro, i've been thinking: why not buying an irish flute directly? xD, and at this point i have a couple of things to point out:

- I want a polymer/delrin one, because many years ago, i purchased a wooden one from a local luthier from barcelona and it was a total mess....it was cracking everytime from the weather, temperature or whatever, so I couldn't learn anything with it before it broke out totally, and I don't want to have to go through it again, so that is the main reasson because now i want a pvc/polymer one.

- It's fair to say that I'm not totally new to the irish flute, cuz i have a dixon pvc one that i bought 3-4 years ago, but....well, it's also a dissaster, the hole of the embochure is SO big that when I play it i feel that the air is moving over the place (and for what i've been searching online, its a common issue with that model), and although I have managed to make it sounds like a "flute", the air loss is so heavy that i can't mantain a good sound and finish one single song, so i think that with a better model, one that is made correctly, maybe Ii will be more easy to play?

And that being said, my doubts and request:

- i've bee investigating in forums, youtube etc , and my conclusion is that those 3 models: copley, M&E and somers, are the best in the polymer/pvc league, is that right? But i couldn't find a direct comparisson or review that concludes wich one is the best option and why, and because the three of them are on the same price range (about 350-400€) i don't know which one I should choose, or if all of them are similar and its a matter of taste or what... mainly I don't want to choose one to find later that the other was a much better option, so, what would you recomend and why?

-I want to ask for some audios, videos etc about the Garry somers ones or the actual M&E models, because while i've found enough videos of the copley one, it has been impossible to find recent videos/audios of those 2 (in fact, in the case of the somers flutes, i haven't found literally anything besides this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyfplj0kNLc , and the 2 o 3 audios of their main shop)

- And the last question is: anyone that had purchased any of those flutes from outside UK, ireland, or usa (in the case of copley), have you experienced any problems? because none of them lets you to pay with paypal so it scares me a bit to spend that much money without guaranties, and besides that i supose that the post-service will be difficult if not imposible, not to mention that i don't know how are the shipings with all of the covid scene, because I have spoken with Michaell cronolly on mail, it sais that they didn't know when they will be able to ship to outside ireland/uk, but in the other hand, Garry has said me that he will be able to send one "in a weeks" or so, and as far as i know, both shops are in ireland, so, whats the difference? XD and i don't even know whats the situaction with shiping from usa to another countries.... .

Thanks, and its a pleauser to be here :P


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 3:38 am 
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Welcome aboard. :)

Whilst I can't help with sound samples, I can say that I have no problems with either of my Tony Dixon flutes, the ABS one piece, & the delrin three piece - it is mainly just down to finding your embouchure.

I also have a Damian Thompson two piece delrin, plus a Davy Angus in aluminium, & an M&E (in F) - I'm only a beginner, but I can get a tune or two out of them all.

I like my M&E, it's quite a heavy flute, compared to the others I have, but it has a good strong tone.
Both of my other two delrins have good tone too, but I find my aluminium one to be a bit too bright sounding, for me.

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 10:53 am 
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My experience with Copley Delrin is really good, so I will recommend it.


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 4:15 pm 
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Can't really answer the question but there are more flutes in that price range, like the Shannon from Walt Sweet or a flute by Damian Thompson. I have read good things about both of them.


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 5:08 pm 
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Let me add that the Copley flutes are very good, but would have to come from the USA.

The Somers Pratten or Rudall are also very good, and should be easier for you to source without substantial shipping & import fees. The appearance is more traditional, with tuning slide, barrel, rings, etc. (at least compared to the lowest-cost Copleys). A great value.

I personally don't care for the M&E flutes. I've owned 2 (older & newer models) & found them too heavy, although they do play well.

Other Delrin models to consider would be:
Seery. (based on a Hudson Pratten). [Bray, Ireland]
Vincenzo di Mauro. [Galway, Ireland] (no personal experience with his flutes).
Damian Thompson. [Tubbercurry, Co. Sligo. Ireland] (no personal experience with his flutes).
Rob Forbes [USA].

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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 8:08 am 
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Having played/owned several of the well known names here, the best delrin flute I´ve ever played is a Francois Baubet. Was so delighted that I returned to get it fully keyed.


Last edited by Juan Pablo Plata on Sat May 16, 2020 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 9:34 am 
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Juan Pablo Plata wrote:
Havin played/owned several of the well known names here, the best delrin flute I´ve ever played is a Francois Baubet. Was so delighted that I returned to get it fully keyed.

I've no experience with this maker, either, but the price seems to fall in the same ballpark, based on posts I've seen. There is no price list on his site, but you can contact him for such details.

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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 12:03 pm 
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Thank you all

It seems that the copley flutes are the best valorated here, but also, like kkrell has said, is the one that would be more complicated in temrs of shiping, the taxes to pay etc, in fact i've contacted to copley for an estimated price, and acording to my calculations, with all the shipmen, taxes etc, it could be even 500€ or more, when the flute is "only" 360 dolars..... so it hurts xD.

Concerning Francois Baubet, i have a lot of recomendations about this particular luthier, but it has a wait list of 6 to 7 months, because as far as i know, it is an ingenier, and he only make the flutes as a side job, is more like a hobbie for him, and while i'm not totally convinced yet regards to buy the flute NOW, i either don't want to have wait half a year or more if i finally decide to buy one.. .

An i've also read about the weight of the M&E, and could be a handicap because years ago i had a bohem flute (the clasica one) and while the embochure, the hole etc was sooooo easier to control than the dixon polymer one, the weight makes my wrist suffer in pain all the time XD.

So it seems meaybe the Garry pattern one would be the best option in my case, but i don't discard any of the others, and I will be searching about the thopmson and the shannon ones, but i think they also have a looooong waiting list.

P.S: @fatmac My Dixon polymer is not the one that is a solid one piece, neither the three pieces one, but the 2 pieces one, an it seems that this is the one that makes more problems witch the embochure in general.

P.S.2: @Juan Pablo Plata , i can't acces to my private messages because i'm new here and it seems the forum has some limitations to the new users, including that, so you can try sending me an e-mail or something, because it seems that you are also spanish, we can be the celtic frineds of "the north of the wall!!" XD


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 8:49 am 
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thompson , and Francois Baubet. are great flutes and made closer to you

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 9:09 am 
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cavefish wrote:
thompson , and Francois Baubet. are great flutes and made closer to you


Yes, but both of them have a wait list about half a year or so XD.

It seems like the M&E has a good discount right now and the keylees are below the 300€ mark (295 the one with silver rings, and 285 the one with the brass), that i thinks its a very good deal :

https://www.mandeirishflutes.ie/product ... -d-flute-1
https://www.mandeirishflutes.ie/product ... er-d-flute

Whats the difference? because judging for the photo , the both of them had steel rings, and whats that "brass tuner" thing? And besides to be "heavy" there is no complain in general about the M&E? Will it be a good option to?

P.S: I've tried to search for the M&E in the forum, but the search tool don't report any result because it seys M&E are too common words XD...so , how can i search info about them from this forum?


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 11:52 am 
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ALECSLEE wrote:
..I want to ask for some audios, videos etc about the Garry somers ones ...)


Just to note for general information that there are indeed sound clips on my website for my flutes, which Alecs must have missed.

Alecs, if you go to the following page, you will see there is a sound clip of Ciarán Somers playing a reel and a slow air on one of my Pratten models, which you are interested in:

http://www.somers-flutes.com/prices-contact

Regarding the issue of postage, it has been taking a few days longer for deliveries within the EU and those delays should begin to ease in the next week or so, as lockdown restrictions are lifted. You can also try asking in your nearest central post office, and see what they can tell you about possible delays to deliveries coming into Spain.

Garry

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 1:07 pm 
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Maihcol wrote:
ALECSLEE wrote:
..I want to ask for some audios, videos etc about the Garry somers ones ...)


Just to note for general information that there are indeed sound clips on my website for my flutes, which Alecs must have missed.

Alecs, if you go to the following page, you will see there is a sound clip of Ciarán Somers playing a reel and a slow air on one of my Pratten models, which you are interested in:

http://www.somers-flutes.com/prices-contact

Regarding the issue of postage, it has been taking a few days longer for deliveries within the EU and those delays should begin to ease in the next week or so, as lockdown restrictions are lifted. You can also try asking in your nearest central post office, and see what they can tell you about possible delays to deliveries coming into Spain.

Garry


Hi Garry! a pleasure to see you here!

Regarding the samples of your shop, i haven't missed them, in fact i have commented them in my first message here:

ALECSLEE wrote:
(in fact, in the case of the somers flutes, i haven't found literally anything besides this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyfplj0kNLc , and the 2 o 3 audios of their main shop)


So my question was if anyone here (or if they know anyone from youtube) that have one of your flutes (or the others), can share the material, to see how all of those flutes (M&E, copley and yours) sounds in the maxium ammount posible of contexts: from beginer to expert, with and without post procesing, in irish trad song or others styles etc, to get and idea and a real expectations on how it would sound at the beggining acording my own begginer level, and how will it sound when I get more confortable, and how will it sounds in a years or so when I be an expert.

P.S: Concerning the shipment/postage, so if i buy a product next monday, can you send it that same week without problems, and there is no restriction/prohibition in your contry to send it to spain?. And if its the case, are you only warning me that, when It gets here, you don't know how long it can take to arrive to my direcction, because you don't know how the internal restrictions about the post services are here in spain at the moment? Or are you saying that at the moment YOU can't send anything because the restrictions, but you think maybe the next you will be able to?


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 9:01 pm 
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I'm a bit late to the party, but own one of Garry's flutes so I thought I'd chime in.

I bought a Somers Pratten a few years ago, and have been very happy with it. Solid, affordable, easy to play and looks like a significantly more expensive instrument (if that matters to you). I purchased mine through Hobgoblin, as I was a bit leery about ordering from Brazil and didn't know if I'd get socked with import fees. Hobgoblin still regularly stocks them, and I imagine you could get one from their UK warehouse in a matter of days. I think they go for USD$400, so whatever that is in Euros. Shipping would be pretty minimal to Spain.

While I'm very much an amateur when it comes to irish fluting, I feel like I should mention something else (which is constantly repeated on here). The actual instrument, providing it's generally well made (and basically everything you buy from a named maker is going to be at least 'generally well made') is secondary to your ability to play it. Much more so when you're learning the basics. People, myself included, overthink this stuff to a terrifying degree. If a particular maker's instrument was a dud, you'd have heard about it here. And they'd probably have stopped making them or be selling them dirt cheap on eBay or somewhere similarly unsavoury.

There's good reviews for all of them. I really don't think the M&E weighing two ounces more is going to be the deciding factor as to whether you become the next Matt Molloy. Or any other minor aspect of them. Just buy the one you like the look of most, or can ship faster, or was nicer to chat to. Then learn to play it really well.

Also, regarding shipping, I ordered a flute from the US last week (to Australia). DHL picked it up on the 20th and it should be in hands on the 25th, going by the tracking. Given that Europe has a lot more flights operating than us, I reckon shipping won't be too much of a concern.


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 7:54 pm 
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I was fortunate to purchase a Somers RR medium holed a few weeks ago. Wow! I'm blown away. Really fun flute to play. Workmanship, quality, intonation, tone, hole spacing, thinness of the flute, embouchure cut, and all, are really fantastically done. It plays sweetly in the upper octave and the low D is nice and reedy. The bottom notes are all quite strong. AND, the flute is relatively light weight. It definitely plays like a Rudall in that it is not overly loud--can be played loudly...

Also, for me, the ability to play quietly and still retain quality of tone and playability is a premium. I am able to do so with this Somers RR.

My Blackwood Nicholson is feeling neglected.

I am also feeling won over by the sound/tone quality isn't dependent on material argument. This flute is a joy to play, which translates to, "The tone I hear when I play is pleasing to me". I understand, now, why folks are having keys added to their Somers flutes--this flute is a ONE flute keeper.


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 8:14 pm 
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I guess I should say, I have no experience with M&E flutes. I have owned Copley and would recommend either Copley or Somers as excellent instruments, in my humble opinion.

(my experience is with Burns (several), Olwell (bamboo and Nicholson), Copley (two), Somers (recently), Hoza, Gabos, and a handful of other Delrin or plastic flutes.


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