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 Post subject: Re: flute dampening out
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:03 pm 
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PB+J wrote:
I think some of these comments are slightly misleading, not intentionally. It takes muscular development: there's just no way around that. ... So a beginner on the flute--me, about 1.5 years in--has to develop those muscles and develop them to the point where it doesn't feel like work anymore.

If anyone's misled by my input then they're reading me incompletely, because I think I've been pretty clear. I've already said that effort is part of the learning process, but when you discover the relaxed embouchure, you realize that all that previous effort and development curiously bears no discernible relationship to it. I don't think that there's any way for most people to go through the process without the preliminary effort part - and without a teacher, it's going to take most people a lot more than 1.5 years to get there. I'm not advocating that developing fluters stop their efforts at muscular development; I think it's an impossible proposition at any rate, because from the outset we can't normally conceive of any other way, so you might as well run with it, and it can serve you well, so if that's what you want to stick with, you're in good company. What I am doing, however, is assuring the reader that the relaxed embouchure is real, it is a possibility available to everyone, and it is worth pursuing, for by it you abandon effort, not habituate to it. There's quite a difference between the two, and I'm not deceived about this. It's not something you can force; you sort of fall into it, and when you do, you realize it's no mistake, but an improvement that serves you better than anything that came before it. Instead of work, it's a pleasure every time.

I think that effort and intentional development may serve to prepare the way toward the relaxed embouchure, but I can't say how this works, because since it means you end up abandoning all that, the equation is too subtle for me to follow. Perhaps it establishes certain patterns, but again, once I had the relaxed embouchure, all the previous methods went completely out the window because they were no longer relevant in any degree, so I can't say for sure what the connection is. But by all indications, you can't get there without making the effort anyway - unless you're a preternatural genius, of course.

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 Post subject: Re: flute dampening out
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:57 pm 
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mendipman wrote:
cavefish wrote:
hey guys the great thing abouth this forum there is information beyond compare insights and such , for brothers and sisters finding a common bond , but as far as embouchure , in all honestly , is it safe to say it takes weeks months etc.


Hopefully you’re discovering a workable tone in months. From there on it’s helpful to think of your tone as a constant work in progress. It will improve but there’s no set timescale or ‘end point’. I like the use of the word ‘evolve’ above; because that’s what our sound does over time and with practice. That’s the creative exploration and journey we’re all on.

oh i have many so called "workable" tunes now, i have actually semi played flutes off and on years ago , but never took it seriously,at least not the art of "irish flute"which will take years
I played whistle, bagpipes ,saxophone, made NAF and bamboo, but i am still a beginner/novice,(comparing myself with you gentlemen),, on speed on the flute this will take time , as all things good do, , but now i have some professtional irish flutes, my study tunes include, Dark slender man, monaghan jig, looking at a rainbow through a dirty window, Dear irish boy, parting of friends , morrisons Etc. there is so much out there its wonderful and its all personalized, , i have been on this forum for years, but actually just got back into the action,,, work load and life has taken the place of fun, :boggle: , now i am getting older 58 and am slowing down, anywho,, you friends has been great help and many have been influences on my ornamentation techniques, as well as the the pros, vinnie kilduff, seamas egan, spillane, heaton, bergin, etc

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 Post subject: Re: flute dampening out
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:12 pm 
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andrewtoml wrote:
Well, I guess I agree that embouchure is the main issue here. The wooden flute I play is boxwood, and to me it plays better and stronger once it has soaked up some dampness. There's a free video by the formidable Emmanuel Pahud on "Flute Position and Embouchure" (https://www.playwithapro.com/video/artist/emmanuel-pahud) in which he addresses much of what folks here are writing about. It's great; each time I watch it I get something out of it. I've been playing flute for almost 50 years now, but each day is a new, and happily, progressive experience with embouchure.


I actually bought this package, which is not that expensive when you consider the price of a 1-hour private lesson with a qualified teacher. It's full of good advice: some of it is more useful for classical players of course, but most of it applies to the flute in general, and even the lesson on vibrato contains valuable information. The video on intonation is alo available on youtube, somehow.

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 Post subject: Re: flute dampening out
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:02 pm 
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gwuilleann wrote:
andrewtoml wrote:
Well, I guess I agree that embouchure is the main issue here. The wooden flute I play is boxwood, and to me it plays better and stronger once it has soaked up some dampness. There's a free video by the formidable Emmanuel Pahud on "Flute Position and Embouchure" (https://www.playwithapro.com/video/artist/emmanuel-pahud) in which he addresses much of what folks here are writing about. It's great; each time I watch it I get something out of it. I've been playing flute for almost 50 years now, but each day is a new, and happily, progressive experience with embouchure.


I actually bought this package, which is not that expensive when you consider the price of a 1-hour private lesson with a qualified teacher. It's full of good advice: some of it is more useful for classical players of course, but most of it applies to the flute in general, and even the lesson on vibrato contains valuable information. The video on intonation is alo available on youtube, somehow.

this guy is good, , but yes it is mostly for concert boehm, he is good

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 Post subject: Re: flute dampening out
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:32 am 
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PB+J wrote:
Ok


Also odds are your embouchure is getting weaker because the muscles are getting tired. Flute is hard


There’s a lot of truth in that response. That’s why they recommend that when you start learning the flute, you start off with a half an hour of practice, and you don’t try to do hours of practice. Your diaphragmatic breathing will not be trained well yet, and you’ll run out of steam. That happens to me even at seven months into my training. I am able to do long tones better now, but there are times when I run out of air and I need to take a break.

On the other hand, I’m 63 years old and a former smoker of 40 years, who quit back in 2018!

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 Post subject: Re: flute dampening out
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:21 am 
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well i have a D flute and a F flute, i have been bouncing around, i need to focus on 1 flute, the F flute is easier, theni will go to the Eb,, my D i am selling

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