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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:14 pm 
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kkrell wrote:
before we get this thread locked.

I think it's about time we did! :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:15 pm 
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kkrell wrote:
OK, if we're going to be a hot mess, anyway, I might as well throw this in before we get this thread locked.

Looks like we're certainly headed that way.

Fildafluter wrote:
kkrell wrote:
First off, the Original Poster can purchase the Hammy Practice flute direct from Hammy for less, $93 (Euro 85) new & worldwide shipping included.

http://hamiltonflutes.com/Prices_Waiting_List.html

Yeah right!
First; incl shipping I paid $135.00 for it.

Sorry to hear that. I don't understand where your additional charges came from - possibly bank wire and/or currency conversion fees? I would however expect Hammy to adhere to his price list.

I apologize, though. This is what I thought might get us locked, as my comment on pricing is, I think, against the board's CCCP. BTW, kudos to the board mods for that particular choice of abbreviation. whose significance I missed until now. Further evidence of a quirky sense of humour.

Fildafluter wrote:
Second; As the photos show, it has an extra cut embouchure vent, and so yeah it costs more :D
Sale page on this link ..
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=109551

I thought the cutaway was on older models, not how they are made at this time. But I see your :D there.

Fildafluter wrote:
Third; It is a matter of opinion how well, or badly, a particular flute suits a player. I have seen many a master of the Cylindrical Irish flute play far better than the other one, IN Ireland long ever before your were born.

I'll grant you that there were & are good players of cylindrical flutes, usually Boehm or Radcliff models - totally different finger/hole coverage situations.

You must be remarkably long-lived. :lol:

Fildafluter wrote:
And at this time ordering from Ireland will not deliver until after Christmas, mine is guaranteed to arrive in 3-5 days US Priority Mail FREE!

I couldn't say what Hammy's delivery times are. I have received in-stock items from Ireland (including antique flutes from auction houses) within 1-2 weeks.

Fildafluter wrote:
Fourth; The African Blackwood I suggest has been recommended to me by a native Irish flute player who has several CDs in print, and I have no doubt but that you have one of them, Kevin

I would be curious to know. The only player I'm aware of that has promoted certain low-cost flutes to students as decent was Dave Sheridan.

Fildafluter wrote:
or a bootleg of one in your CDs for sale.

Not so likely.

Fildafluter wrote:
I have no idea what the delrin flutes you recco are like, except for reports of wimpy sounding E, B and almost silent C natural, but I guess you do.

We're both welcome here to share our experiences and opinions.

Fildafluter wrote:
Any road up I take the word of somebody I know pretty well, and like myself grew up in Ireland, before I would that of somebody I never met but on the Internet.
:D

Perhaps a little closed-minded, but understandable. We rely on our relationships. I guess ours is not going so well. Happens. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:34 pm 
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Fildafluter wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:
Fildafluter wrote:

Hazing newbies with bad sources, are we? That's an actionable violation around here. :really:

Whut? dats not 'hazing' I got the reco from a published Irish flute player. :thumbsup:

So you say. This being the Internet (as you have pointed out), it is for the reader to take your word for it, or not. In any case, if you think I'm going to be dazzled and abandon doubt because you call your supposed source "published" and "Irish", think again. I'm sure I'm not the only one around here who takes a dim view of having their intelligence insulted.

I suggest you take into account the overarching climate of board behavior on this site. It has evolved into what it is out of majority preference, and you might also notice that people freely uphold and call for its observance. The board rules reflect this climate, and it is in your best interests to acquaint yourself with them and take them to heart. Fun is one thing, but tossing stoats into the chicken coop to amuse yourself is quite another.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:31 pm 
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I just love the holiday season.... peace, joy, and good will to men (and women and children too).

Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it.

Best wishes.

Steve

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:23 pm 
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Steve Bliven wrote:
I just love the holiday season.... peace, joy, and good will to men (and women and children too).

Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it.

Best wishes.

Steve

And to you, Steve. Happy Holidays.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:20 pm 
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kkrell wrote:
Steve Bliven wrote:
I just love the holiday season.... peace, joy, and good will to men (and women and children too).

Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it.

Best wishes.

Steve

And to you, Steve. Happy Holidays.

Now THAT'S a different take on trolling. :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:27 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
Fildafluter wrote:

Hazing newbies with bad sources, are we? That's an actionable violation around here. :really:

I'd like to add some explanation & apologies all around, and maybe let's get back to the business of fluting.

First, apologies to Fildafluter for jumping on their For Sale posting. I'm not supposed to based on the board rules, specifically #8. ( viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84192 ). I certainly can't claim inexperience with the forums. I am clearly in violation and accept any punishment. I got a bit heated because, in my opinion, that flute did not meet the OP's desire " I would like to have something that I can grow into and not outgrow in six months."
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84192

I also reacted strongly to the music store link, because of the site's operator, Muhammad Umer Prince, and his considerable spamming of (& subsequent removal from) thesession.org, where he refused to participate in any useful way. Just incredibly pushy about selling. The same may or may not have occurred on C&F. I don't recall, and the moderators here are quick to clean up.

I recall the testimonials on that site as being somewhat suspect ("Peter Gabriel" - musician, & Jack Dorsey, which I think is the name of the head of Twitter). The instruments themselves, & the product selection, seem to be of Pakistani design or origin, and perhaps Mr. Prince might even have relocated himself and/or workers to Germany from there. He may source them carefully & has found himself a reliable supplier of better quality than we have conventionally associated with that region. Another topic already discussed in the pinned thread ( viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34685 ). BTW, I gifted Alan, who began that thread, a decent playing Pakistani flute (about 20 years old) from Lark in the Morning.

Again, apologies for being so hot-headed.

Kevin Krell

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:57 pm 
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kkrell wrote:
Same for the one wood flute I could recommend, the Casey Burns Folk Flute.
http://www.caseyburnsflutes.com/ff.php


If only Casey worked in Delrin... a Delrin small-hands Folk Flute would be a dream... *sigh*

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:11 pm 
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Katharine wrote:
If only Casey worked in Delrin... a Delrin small-hands Folk Flute would be a dream... *sigh*

See this recent post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=109575

Casey is in the process of evolving the Folk Flute as a 3D printed flute, which would be a synthetic material.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:14 pm 
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kkrell wrote:
I also reacted strongly to the music store link, because of the site's operator, Muhammad Umer Prince, and his considerable spamming of (& subsequent removal from) thesession.org, where he refused to participate in any useful way. Just incredibly pushy about selling. The same may or may not have occurred on C&F. I don't recall, and the moderators here are quick to clean up.

...The instruments themselves, & the product selection, seem to be of Pakistani design or origin, and perhaps Mr. Prince might even have relocated himself and/or workers to Germany from there.

That last seems indeed to be the case. I must point out that Muzikhaus seems to put a lot of well-done effort into marketing itself webwide, but its prices are so unbelievably attractive that common sense should scream a warning through their litany of pretty words like "best" and "innovative". For those of us who recognize Pakistani product when we see it, that in itself explains much. We have noted several attempts at joining C&F by Muhammad Umer (apparently "Prince" is his putative rank, not part of his name proper) and/or by his representatives, and the variable nature of the attempts only serve to convince us that his company is not as on the level as we in Admin would like to see. It is clear to us that any attempts by him, or parties on his behalf, to join C&F are motivated solely by commercial gain, and we don't permit that. Of course some of our members trade actively in flutes and other instruments on a strictly independent basis, but corporations dedicated to the practice are quite another matter. Added to that is the fact that the source of Muzikhaus's instruments will in many cases (if not all) point to Pakistan, and the informed Trad flute world has plenty negative to say about that, and rightly so. If the sweatshops of Sialkot City are cleaning up their act and now consistently putting out a level of quality suited to serious playing, instead of bad instruments intended for preying on the innocent, I for one will need proof of it.

And that is why I accused Fildafluter of hazing. I'll allow he may not have been aware of Muzikhaus's recently suspicionable reputation around here, but it's not as if we've been whispering in the shadows about it, either.

kkrell wrote:
He may source them carefully & has found himself a reliable supplier of better quality than we have conventionally associated with that region. Another topic already discussed in the pinned thread ( viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34685 ). BTW, I gifted Alan, who began that thread, a decent playing Pakistani flute (about 20 years old) from Lark in the Morning.

It's known that Pakistani quality is hit-or-miss at best. I personally have never yet been pleasantly surprised, much as I would like to be. If Fildafluter's source has solid info that can sweep away our misgivings, then let's have it.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:12 pm 
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Conical bore wrote:
Katharine wrote:
If only Casey worked in Delrin... a Delrin small-hands Folk Flute would be a dream... *sigh*

See this recent post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=109575

Casey is in the process of evolving the Folk Flute as a 3D printed flute, which would be a synthetic material.

That would be awesome! I love the durability of polymer. I want to love my M&E Delrin flute, but my left wrist says otherwise... but I got to try out a small-hands Folk Flute once, and it was not uncomfortable after just a few minutes (and IIRC, the holes worked out better for the size of my fingers, as well).

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:33 am 
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Nanohedron wrote:
It's known that Pakistani quality is hit-or-miss at best. I personally have never yet been pleasantly surprised, much as I would like to be. If Fildafluter's source has solid info that can sweep away our misgivings, then let's have it.


Ok fair cop!

I did not know the rules about posting prices in discussion.

Sorry, Nanohedron.

Thanks for the clarifications.

To Kevin K, sorry for my overreaction, I was and always will be your fan!

Here is how I got the reco.

On Facebook among my many friends I have several professional trad musicians. So I elected to ask
one of those about beginner flutes.

" Hello ( Name removed) , I am going mental here with all the different Irish Flutes for sale on the internet. For a keyless conical bore in African Blackwood 250 euros, plus shipping in Germany, next 150 US dollars same thing on Eaby, next McNeela's Arie De Keyzer student model in the same wood for US 780 dollars."

and asked which the person thought the best deal - considering that the person lives by fluting the person should know -

to which the person replies " the keyless African Blackwood "

Now I do not know if the person actually ever tried one of those flutes, I just took the comment into my notes for future reference, and I am still searching for a nice conical bore synthetic model IOW thanks for the reco, but I pass on the selection.

In view of the above revelations, especially the abusive behavior of this Mohammed pushing his suspect product, I am now editing my notes with a caveat emptor 'Pakistani flute' caution for this Musikhause website, so withdrawing my reco on that.

Note to self and others, please do not jump on newbies here because you think they are being nasty,
it may that they don't know the rules, or are in some kind of personal crisis causing them to spike
your evaluation of their sin.

In my case I am eating the edge of my fingernails off awaiting the return from the repair shop of a recently acquired Crabb C/G Anglo . Made in 1965, owned by a female, now deceased, rarely played, in very good condition but with valve and bellows leaks, plus the Air-valve falling apart, it had to be repaired.

Before you ask, yes I paid more for it than a really nice wooden flute would cost. So why not buy the flute instead? Well I am not much of a flute player, and a far better Concertinist, if that makes any sense. Oh and BTW these particular era Crabb tinas are rare because they have brass reed shoes with Sweedish steel reeds in them, as opposed to the more common aluminum reed shoes. All original as this one was when I got it, yes it is very collectable and worth about four times what I paid for it.

Other BTW, I have some seasoned Texas bamboo here which I am procrastinating over, to make a couple of low flutes, L apprx 24 inches of stick... Lazy yes! horrid flautist, guilty, but stoat thrower, most certainly not.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:03 pm 
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Fildafluter wrote:
and I am still searching for a nice conical bore synthetic model IOW thanks for the reco, but I pass on the selection.

I don't understand... you say you are and always will be Kevin's fan yet reject his list of some of the best polymer flutes available because of 'reports of wimpy sounding E, B and almost silent C natural'. When I tell you my Copley (NB the only one of these I've tried or I'd probably be backing up the recommendations for others too) has none of these and make a light-hearted quip about your constant stressing of your Irish roots, you jump on me...

You ask if I'm as nasty a player as I am a person, and the truthful answer is much nastier; I'm a rotten player but people tell me I'm really quite nice!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:26 pm 
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Well, I'm glad to see that things are getting cleared up - sort of. Communication, especially on the Internet, can be tricky at times.

Fildafluter wrote:
I did not know the rules about posting prices in discussion.

I'm not sure you understand them fully, yet. What we don't allow is public "price policing" over items offered by members of this Board. Let's say a Chiffer has a $30 whistle for sale here at the price of $100: If you find it questionable, discuss it by PM or email, not on public threads in the forums. Average going prices are easily found thanks to the Internet, so if a member is willing to buy a normally-$30 whistle from another member for $100, that's their business. If you can't find the average pricing info you're looking for as a guide, you can always ask for input on the forums. That is certainly allowed. Just don't use it as a price policing tactic in the wake of a FS post asking a high price, because nobody will be fooled. It can be a fine line, so when in doubt, it's better to err on the side of discretion. It's why we have PMs.

The rest hinges on common sense and/or courtesy. As for the prices of items outside of C&F - companies in particular, or eBay items offered by nonmembers, that sort of thing - then those are fair game. We can certainly make price comparisons among makers - you don't see it often, but it can be a useful thing when arriving at decisions, because price isn't everything - but pointing something out is different from criticizing it. For example, a characteristic of Noy flutes is that they are going to be notably more expensive than the usual prices, but that is a case of "You want it good, fast, and cheap: pick two." In Noy's case, you get it good and fast, so you pay more accordingly. That's perfectly fair.

Any clearer, now?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:43 pm 
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Does anyone know about blackwood Seery flutes? I was offered one of those as well, but I don't have all the particulars yet. The only information on Seery I can find is relative to the Delrin models. The person offering the blackwood one said that is about 40 years old. I'll post more when they get back to me with details.


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