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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:24 am 
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Location: Lawrence, KS
I played an ebonite flute for close to 4 years and played it outside frequently, and it did not discolor. I think modern ebonite has less of a problem with UV discoloration.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:01 am 
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Andro wrote:
I have a McNeela Delrin 6 key flute.


are you sure it's Delrin? i know they advertise one of their flutes as Delrin(TM), but it's absolutely identical to the M&E polymer flute, which is not Delrin. someone else recently mentioned that McNeela is claiming to sell Cocuswood flutes for a price at which it clearly can't be Cocuswood, so i'm not sure how much i'd trust their claims of the materials used.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:58 am 
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Location: Pacific Northwest USA
PB+J wrote:
I have an Ellis flute made of walnut, lined with Marine epoxy that’s awesome, and it makes me wonder again why maple or other more common temperate climate woods can’t be used.

Forbes and Yola Christie of Windward Flutes have been offering the option of "Torrified" (heat treated) Canadian birds-eye and fiddle-back Maple in addition to tropical hardwoods for their flutes. It's an interesting alternative to using petroleum products to stabilize a softer wood species. It looks very nice, a darker brown than untreated maple. They say it smells like pancakes.
:)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:01 am 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
I have a delrin flute made by Rob Forbes, and I've played delrin flutes made by Dave Copley belonging to others, and none of these are in any way slippery. They have a matt finish but it is very smooth. The material just doesn't seem to be slippery. Are you sure your flute is made of delrin?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:25 am 
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Conical bore wrote:
PB+J wrote:
I have an Ellis flute made of walnut, lined with Marine epoxy that’s awesome, and it makes me wonder again why maple or other more common temperate climate woods can’t be used.

Forbes and Yola Christie of Windward Flutes have been offering the option of "Torrified" (heat treated) Canadian birds-eye and fiddle-back Maple in addition to tropical hardwoods for their flutes. It's an interesting alternative to using petroleum products to stabilize a softer wood species. It looks very nice, a darker brown than untreated maple. They say it smells like pancakes.
:)



Yes I saw that on their website. I've made a couple guitar necks with "roasted maple" and to me it smells like burned wood. But there may be a difference between "Torrefied" and "roasted" wood. The words get thrown around kind of casually. Pretty sure "torrefication" takes place in a vacuum, but I think roasting can take place in your oven


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:45 am 
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Thanks all for the replies.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:56 am 
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And when all else fails there's always Gorilla Snot!

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/accesso ... TCEALw_wcB


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:22 am 
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Conical bore wrote:
PB+J wrote:
I have an Ellis flute made of walnut, lined with Marine epoxy that’s awesome, and it makes me wonder again why maple or other more common temperate climate woods can’t be used.

Forbes and Yola Christie of Windward Flutes have been offering the option of "Torrified" (heat treated) Canadian birds-eye and fiddle-back Maple in addition to tropical hardwoods for their flutes. It's an interesting alternative to using petroleum products to stabilize a softer wood species. It looks very nice, a darker brown than untreated maple. They say it smells like pancakes.
:)


I use roasted maple as well, and it does have the advantage of not requiring stabilization (ala something like vacuum resin infusion). It doesn't seem very mobile once it is shaped, since it is pretty well pre-shrunk in the roasting process. However, roasting it does not seem to improve the machining quality of the bore in the same way as resin infusion, and maple can be quite porous (leaking air). When you ream maple, it does not ream anything as smoothly as more conventional flute timbers (blackwood, mopane, boxwood, rosewoods of other types, etc.) I don't oil my bores, so I'm not sure how well it seals the different porous woods. I presume the answer is "quite well" because otherwise Forbes and Yola wouldn't be using it. They are not going to make a flute that leaks :-) Hardening oils have been time-tested by flute makers, though I have had trouble getting them to harden in my climate which is what got me looking for alternatives long ago.

I opt for a coat of clear marine epoxy in the bores of maple instruments, simply because it seals them completely, provides a smoother inner bore surface (improved response) and waterproofs them. There may be hidden disadvantages to this approach, such as finding that fifty years down the road the coat of epoxy flakes off or something like that. I don't think the epoxy manufacturer would own that possibility, and it may be a complete non-issue for the next two centuries. But oil has the advantage of being easily refreshed and maintained by the player. I have oiled some bore in the past and while it is great for closed-grain, dense woods like blackwood or oily tropical woods, it does not (to my ear) work nearly as well on more open-grained woods of less density such as walnut, maple, etc.. They do amazingly well with a hard bore finish.

And of course I also have done vacuum resin stabilizing on such woods. In terms of environmental impact, I'm not sure how "bad" the resin is, either at the manufacturing end, or on the by-product end (during production). Certainly some resin-infused sawdust is going back into the environment. It is the same ongoing discussion we've had here before about how enviro-friendly flute making can realistically be, and is there any such thing as zero-impact? (SPOILER ALERT: there isn't!).

But I love the possibilities offered by roasted maple, simply because it gives a really viable domestic wood option for those who want it. And it can be done at home in your oven. I've been schooled by a guy who roasts maple commercially, and he taught me the basics--it's quite straightforward.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:24 am 
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PB+J wrote:
Conical bore wrote:
PB+J wrote:
I have an Ellis flute made of walnut, lined with Marine epoxy that’s awesome, and it makes me wonder again why maple or other more common temperate climate woods can’t be used.

Forbes and Yola Christie of Windward Flutes have been offering the option of "Torrified" (heat treated) Canadian birds-eye and fiddle-back Maple in addition to tropical hardwoods for their flutes. It's an interesting alternative to using petroleum products to stabilize a softer wood species. It looks very nice, a darker brown than untreated maple. They say it smells like pancakes.
:)



Yes I saw that on their website. I've made a couple guitar necks with "roasted maple" and to me it smells like burned wood. But there may be a difference between "Torrefied" and "roasted" wood. The words get thrown around kind of casually. Pretty sure "torrefication" takes place in a vacuum, but I think roasting can take place in your oven


I suspect the terms are synonymous. One is the "industry" word and the other the DIY term most likely. Cooked maple.

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