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Rudall & Rose 4322 in G&H auction
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Author:  jemtheflute [ Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall & Rose 4322 in G&H auction

I agree that the domed crown on the GH flute is not at all likely to be original and that so far as the catalogue photos show, the flute has had a relatively recent overhaul. There may also be some doubt about the enormous size of the R1 & R2 tone-holes and the rather dark honey colour of the wood may suggest it has been stained as part of modern work on it.

Regarding Uniflute's idea about checking threads on crown/stopper assemblies, I'm afraid that won't work because there is no standardisation - very few prove to be interchangeable (I've tried! ;-) ). The diameter of the threaded shaft is variable, as is the pitch of the thread. This is perhaps unsurprising as they are likely to have been individually hand turned, freehand, and the threads hand chased.

Author:  kkrell [ Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall & Rose 4322 in G&H auction

jemtheflute wrote:
There may also be some doubt about the enormous size of the R1 & R2 tone-holes and the rather dark honey colour of the wood may suggest it has been stained as part of modern work on it.

I notice discussion on this flute seems to have stopped, here & on the FB Flute Histoy group. While I've had some interest in a boxwood Rudall, this one isn't going to be it. I definitely distrust the size of those toneholes - I've never seen anything like that size, going all the way into the block in one instance. I have big hands, and not sure I could cover those even with piper's grip (also that block looks in the way). I think somebody carved them out, and I'm not thinking to any appropriate useful purpose. Wonder how the tuning is.

Author:  Flutesoftheforest [ Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall & Rose 4322 in G&H auction

Good luck to all those who choose to , or not to, bid on this flute. All this speculation will either encourage or discourage bidders, who can tell? All it takes is for two people to really want the flute and then who knows where it will go. Since the "invention" of on line catalogues and bidding there are very few surprises nowadays. The international market will have it's way and I will sit back in wonderment!!!!!!!!
:o :o :o :o

Author:  paddler [ Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall & Rose 4322 in G&H auction

kkrell wrote:
jemtheflute wrote:
There may also be some doubt about the enormous size of the R1 & R2 tone-holes and the rather dark honey colour of the wood may suggest it has been stained as part of modern work on it.

I notice discussion on this flute seems to have stopped, here & on the FB Flute Histoy group. While I've had some interest in a boxwood Rudall, this one isn't going to be it. I definitely distrust the size of those toneholes - I've never seen anything like that size, going all the way into the block in one instance. I have big hands, and not sure I could cover those even with piper's grip (also that block looks in the way). I think somebody carved them out, and I'm not thinking to any appropriate useful purpose. Wonder how the tuning is.


The large tone holes and other features, including the domed cap, have me wondering if this is actually an F flute rather than a D flute. Has anyone seen the dimensions or verified that it is in fact a D flute?

Author:  jemtheflute [ Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall & Rose 4322 in G&H auction

Sold for £2.5k hammer, so effectively £3k after commission. Roughly what I expected. I hope for the buyer's sake it's not been too mucked about!

Author:  Flutesoftheforest [ Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall & Rose 4322 in G&H auction

So at least two bidders believed in it then! Well done the highest bidder.
:) :lol: :) :lol: :)

Author:  radcliff [ Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall & Rose 4322 in G&H auction

from my point of view it was a risky auction:
Its description was strictly skeleton plus the GH's staff was sloppy and their condition's report consist of only one extra picture, not even interesting!
Serial n. was taken wrong (is it 4364 ? ) even if easy readable.
Last, the flute seems equipped with Pisoni pads, I mean: if it was recently served, could the seller give us (or GH) more info ?
Few more details and, imho, the RR could have fetched £4K without general amazement.

Author:  kkrell [ Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall & Rose 4322 in G&H auction

radcliff wrote:
from my point of view it was a risky auction:
Its description was strictly skeleton plus the GH's staff was sloppy and their condition's report consist of only one extra picture, not even interesting!
Serial n. was taken wrong (is it 4364 ? ) even if easy readable.
Last, the flute seems equipped with Pisoni pads, I mean: if it was recently served, could the seller give us (or GH) more info ?
Few more details and, imho, the RR could have fetched £4K without general amazement.

I received 12 pictures. Serial # does seem to be 4322.

Author:  Steampacket [ Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall & Rose 4322 in G&H auction

I also received 12 photos of the flute and the serial number is definitly 4322. The flute seems fine if you're a fan of boxwood. The crown should be easily sorted, and the R1 and R2 holes too if necessary. Jem how would the enlarged holes affect the tuning of the F# and E?.

Author:  jemtheflute [ Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall & Rose 4322 in G&H auction

Steampacket wrote:
I also received 12 photos of the flute and the serial number is definitly 4322. The flute seems fine if you're a fan of boxwood. The crown should be easily sorted, and the R1 and R2 holes too if necessary. Jem how would the enlarged holes affect the tuning of the F# and E?.


Well, E isn't affected - that's defined by the R3 tone-hole. If R1 & R2 have been enlarged, the (usually flat, even properly vented) F# and the G would obviously both be sharpened and strengthened and perhaps be brought more in line with the usually sharp A, but the relationship with the probably flat anyway D (and low C#/C) would be badly compromised and the whole balance of the tuning upset. That's partly why I had the enlarged holes (L2 and R2) on my #5099 bushed and recut by Chris Wilkes, though it was also to restore them up to the tube surface as some numpty had put a half-round file across them.

Author:  Steampacket [ Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall & Rose 4322 in G&H auction

Quote:
Well, E isn't affected - that's defined by the R3 tone-hole. If R1 & R2 have been enlarged, the (usually flat, even properly vented) F# and the G would obviously both be sharpened and strengthened and perhaps be brought more in line with the usually sharp A, but the relationship with the probably flat anyway D (and low C#/C) would be badly compromised and the whole balance of the tuning upset. That's partly why I had the enlarged holes (L2 and R2) on my #5099 bushed and recut by Chris Wilkes, though it was also to restore them up to the tube surface as some numpty had put a half-round file across them. Jem


Yes of course, my mistake, G and F#. What could it cost if the new owner wanted to to have the holes bushed and recut and a new crown with threaded cork adjuster made?

Author:  gorjuswrex [ Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall & Rose 4322 in G&H auction

Strange the listing on the GH page shows it as 'unsold' now. I only looked at it today so don't know if it was different before.

https://bid.gardinerhoulgate.co.uk/m/lo ... tured%3Dno

Author:  jemtheflute [ Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall & Rose 4322 in G&H auction

gorjuswrex wrote:
Strange the listing on the GH page shows it as 'unsold' now. I only looked at it today so don't know if it was different before.

https://bid.gardinerhoulgate.co.uk/m/lo ... tured%3Dno


I have received (privately) information that the sale was cancelled post-hammer, by GH, due to "issues" (with undisclosed modifications) coming to their attention.

Author:  radcliff [ Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall & Rose 4322 in G&H auction

maybe they just found out that I did not recived the pictures I should! :P

Author:  tstermitz [ Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall & Rose 4322 in G&H auction

It did seem like the description was a little thin. G&H have handled other historic flutes, so they should provide (could have provided) confidence building information.

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