Chiff and Fipple Forums

Hey there,
Been trolling here for many years and just now getting around to talking. I am looking in to a modern keyed flute, and wondered if anyone has any personal experience with Dave Copley's 8 key flutes? I am specifically interested in there handling in the 3 octave. I play silver flute mainly but am looking to leave it behind for the most part. The love of Trad is coming on strong, but I still got a lot of call for Klezmer stuff too.
Any help would be great.
EZ

I've seen Dave's eight-keyed flute when I visited him around the time he first made it.
I didn't play it but the bottom keys were working fine. Dave is a fine craftsman, also
a lovely guy. If it were me I would e mail him my questions.

I have no info on Copley's flutes except that they are highly regarded by many. The original simple system flutes were designed to be played in the third octave, but many modern variants are optimized to have good tuning in the first two octaves at the expense of the tuning in the third. It doesn't mean you can't play them, but you might have to look at the alternative fingerings on fingering charts to get some notes in tune. I suspect that you will need to try one and see for yourself.

OTOH, you could argue the converse, namely that playability in the third octave has compromised tuning in the bottom two octaves in originals. It has been said that the best overall key for simple system flutes is Ab. So if Klezmer uses flat keys, you might be fine. I played the baroque flute for a while, and got used to having to use lips and alternative fingerings to bring notes into tune, and to facilitate trills and transitions,and so don't mind doing this on simple system flutes, but since you come from the silver flute, you might find it a big step. End of day my advice is to try any simple system flute and see how you get on before committing big bucks.

Hugh

Hey thanks for the input
Jim: Yeah I have been in contact with Dave, and he has been very helpful. Of his own volition he is strictly a Trad guy and thus does not get up that high.

Hugh: Thank you very much for your thoughts. I have a 6 keyed Starck of London that I have restored and am starting to figure out its intonation anomalies.
It is for sure a bit different than my standard tube. I have a keyless Delrin Copely on the way from a friend as well that I will be playing soon. Dave said it is
almost identical to the keyed version minus the fingering choices in the upper octave.

As flutefry said, not all modern flutes are optimized to play in the third register.

Some flute makers do make that effort, but you'll have to ask them specifically. One clue might be a flute with smaller holes designed after Rudall & Rose models. I think John Gallagher and Chris Norman make flutes with that idea.

A 19th Century flute is also a good choice as they were normally designed to play into the third register. My Firth, Pond & Co plays easily up to Eb & E. I can get to F, but G is hard. It has none of the reputed idiosyncrasies attributed to vintage flutes. Well, it likes to have the Eb key held down to open up the low E note, but I think that isn't a problem for someone coming from silver flute.

A vintage flute is typically cheaper than a new flute, although you're running chances on the internet and may need to budget for repairs.

Wait times for keyed flutes can be tedious. But, I guess you have to wait on a vintage flute to show up as well. Check irishflute store: https://www.irishflutestore.com

Thank you all for the advice..
Still looking for anyone with firsthand experience with these flute.
EZ

I'm not sure what difference the eight-keys makes for handling the flute in the third octave.
FWIW I've played a good deal a copley keyless and a Copley six-key. There may be some exceptions and
i have heard it said, and believe, that generally Irish flutes give you two solid octaves and then you
start 'hawking'. That is, improvising fingerings that take you into the third octave.
There are some standard third-octave fingerings, but these tend to be local to
particular flutes. I can generally get up to the third octave g and sometimes a. This includes
Dave Coplley's flutes. Maybe two more bottom keys would change this, but I have no reason to think it and have never heard this before.

jim stone wrote:I'm not sure what difference the eight-keys makes for handling the flute in the third octave.
FWIW I've played a good deal a copley keyless and a Copley six-key. There may be some exceptions and
i have heard it said, and believe, that generally Irish flutes give you two solid octaves and then you
start 'hawking'. That is, improvising fingerings that take you into the third octave.
There are some standard third-octave fingerings, but these tend to be local to
particular flutes. I can generally get up to the third octave g and sometimes a. This includes
Dave Coplley's flutes. Maybe two more bottom keys would change this, but I have no reason to think it and have never heard this before.

Thank you very much for the insight! I just got my Keyless Delrin Copley today, and it is supurb. It jumps up to 3 G no problem. Still figuring out
some of the in-between stuff though.
Happen to know of a good 3 octave fingering chart?
Thanks again.
EZ

Here's one to start with....

http://www.martindoyleflutes.com/fingering-charts.html

Best wishes.

Steve

EzMan wrote: Happen to know of a good 3 octave fingering chart?

Lots of good info on the "Fingering Charts sticky" posted on this Forum. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88141

dcopley wrote:

EzMan wrote: Happen to know of a good 3 octave fingering chart?

Lots of good info on the "Fingering Charts sticky" posted on this Forum. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88141

Thank you much Dave, very helpful.
EZ