Looking for Second Hand flutes Australia

[sapatos]

I've been advised that importing wooden flutes to Australia is tricky due to the wood. It was suggested I should post here to find anyone who is selling second hand wooden flutes. Specifically I'm looking for black keyless, 3 piece, tuning slide with rings etc.

I saw some lovely flutes from Terry Mcgee and Mark Hoza which would be perfect but they are a little out of my range. If anyone can suggest something it would be greatly appreciated

[dyersituations]

You could message Terry McGee, he's active on the forums, and he might have some ideas. Otherwise, if you're willing to try another type of wood for a used flute, like Mopane, you could get them shipped internationally.

[sapatos]

thanks I'll do that

[Andro]

Hi from Melbourne!

Who advised you? The CITES regulations vary from country to country - it's not uniform. Australia is one of the countries that allows importation of African Blackwood flutes with no issues. I imported a beautiful Sam Murray Blackwood flute recently, in practical proof of this. You have been misinformed.

I will look up the reference on the regulations for you - give me a day or two.

Many American makers do not realise this, and I observe similar misinformation on various make websites.

Regardless, Terry McGee is a very fine maker and it is nice to support local craftsmen. [I'm saving up for my keyed Gidgee from him...]

[Having said this, it's possible that I am wrong, despite obtaining a Blackwood flute. I cant find the references now. I will keep looking! The CITES regulations while very well intentioned are a morass of bureaucratic tangles.]

[Andro]

Ah, here it is, from Casey Burns:

Blackwood and CITES African Blackwood and all Rosewoods were recently classified under CITES (The Convention of International Trade of Endangered Species of Flora and Fauna ) to protect these species from illegal harvesting and transport. Under the rules, you are allowed to travel with your flute as a personal item across international boundaries without any need for CITES permits or documentation. If you are ordering a flute from outside the United States, however, I am required to include with the export documentation a copy of my permits issued by the US Department of Agriculture and the US Fish and Wildlife Service. All of the Blackwood that I use is pre-Convention, documented, and permitted under Master Permit 20521C, issued by the USFWS. You may also be required to obtain an Import Permit under CITES. This is the case for Ireland and most of the European Union countries. Australia, New Zealand, Canada nor Japan require you to get an import permit - the CITES documentation that I send with the flute is sufficient. Let me know if I can help you figure out where to obtain the necessary CITES import permits.

Of course, buying a secondhand instrument may be problematical because it will generally not have a maker certificate.

[dcopley]

I exchanged emails with the Australian Dept of Environment and Energy on this topic about a year ago. If you import a blackwood flute into Australia you will need an import permit if the wood is "post-convention" (after Jan 2017) but not for pre convention. The export permit obtained by the maker will indicate whether it is pre- or post. Below is the text of the reply which includes contact info for anyone needing to follow up.

Dave Copley
Loveland Ohio
http://www.copleyflutes.com

Wildlife Trade <Wildlifetrade@environment.gov.au>
Jun 17, 2018, 9:48 PM
to me

Dear Dave,
Thank you for your email.
The import requirements for Australia will be dependent on the type of permit issued by the United States Fish and Wildlife Service. Should the export permit be pre-convention (this will be evidence by the source code of O in the Source Code Box in Box 10), then no Australian import permit will be required.

Should the permit not be pre-convention, then an Australian import permit will be required for the goods to be legally imported into Australia.
To apply for an Australian import permit the importer will need to submit our online application form: https://forms.business.gov.au/smartform ... mCode=WTPH
They will need to attach a copy of the overseas (re)-export permit and any other relevant information you have obtained when sourcing the items.
Please allow up to 40 business days for your import permit application to be processed. Any items that are imported without a permit will be seized by Australian Border Force on entry to Australia.
All items made from animal or plant products must be declared upon entry into Australia. You should contact the Australian Department of Agriculture and Water Resources regarding any quarantine requirements they may have. You can contact them toll free on 1800 900 090 or by email at info@agriculture.com.au

I hope this information is of assistance. If you have any further questions please contact the Wildlife Trade Regulation team.

Kind regards
Kath

Kath Hansen│Senior Permits Officer │Wildlife Trade Regulation SectiCITES Management Authority of Australia │Department of the Environment and Energy
( 02 6274 1900 (option '1') * wildlifetrade@environment.gov.au
GPO Box 787, CANBERRA, ACT 2601

The Department has an online application form. You can access the online form at: https://forms.business.gov.au/smartform ... mCode=WTPH

[Andro]

Hi from Australia,

I phoned the Department of Environment and Energy in Canberra today to clarify the matter of importing a flute made from Dalbergia Melanoxylon (African Blackwood). The response was clear and consistent with what the letter Dave showed says.

Importing a blackwood flute requires permits from the maker selling it, two different forms if wood is pre-CITES conventions or post. I specifically asked if this applies to secondhand instruments bought on ebay and so on, and it indeed does. When I pointed out this is problematical, they agreed (!) but you still have to get the paperwork. That probably knocks out purchasing blackwood flutes on auction sites and so on. The staff officer did say you can fill out a Statutory Declaration with all the information you have about the flute to the best of your knowledge, and it will be assessed, with no guarantee of acceptance.

I conclude from this that one had better stick to mopane or other non-classified woods. Boxwood is nice! (but not the same).

I also asked about the rumours that the next CITES convention may change the ruling on musical instruments, but I agree with the staff office in Canberra who said we just don't know yet. There is no certainty.

Andrew

[irishmuse]

Hi sapatos.
The proposals to exempt finished musical instruments and parts can be read here:

https://cites.org/eng/cop/18/prop/index.php

Scroll down till you see the trees! There are downloadable pdf files too. The meeting is scheduled for August 2019 so not too far off. Expectation seems to be the proposals will pass on most relative websites I have looked at. When it will all trickle through to customs is another matter.

I am also Down Under. 2nd hand flutes do turn up occasionally on Gumtree Australia. There was a McGee there last year IIRC. Someone in Littlehampton in SA has been trying to offload an old Nach Meyer type flute there for $200 over the past 3 weeks. It has cracks to the barrel and looks in need of a complete overhaul. Best avoided for your purposes, but it shows they do turn up. Ditto ebay, but not frequently.

Best of luck with your search.