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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:50 am 
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Location: Coos Bay Oregon
busterbill wrote:
Conical bore wrote:
I have never understood these flimsy locks on musical instrument cases*.


My son has a very nice violin in a Bam case with a combo lock. Of course he never locks it. One day in college he called me frantic about a chip on the edge on the back of the violin. He is a very careful guy and would remember any damage he would have made. My theory was some other orchestra member was interested in the sound of the violin, and having the brain of a 20 year old figured he or she could try it without asking, hit it on something and was too embarrassed to confess. In this case the damage was repairable, but it did stress out my son. That is about the only thing these locks are good for. If you instrument is valuable enough to steal, yes, anyone can dismantle a case or break a lock.


This is exactly what the lock is for, curious friends and family members. A thief would just carry the whole thing away. It just creates a situation in which a person needs to ask permission before looking with their hands.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:26 am 
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busterbill wrote:
This is exactly what the lock is for, curious friends and family members. A thief would just carry the whole thing away. It just creates a situation in which a person needs to ask permission before looking with their hands.

I still have to wonder about the percentage of musical instrument case owners who have ever actually used the locks. I'll bet it's a tiny percentage, which leads me to think those locks are put on cases mainly for marketing psychology. A lock on a case implies there is something valuable inside, and who doesn't want to think their instruments are valuable? :)

Anyway, I'm glad my Northwind flute cases don't have locking clasps. And I'm nervous about the lock on my Pegasus mandolin case. It's probably not something that would lock itself accidentally, but it would really suck to have to pry that case open and damage it in the process, if that ever happened.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:11 am 
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Conical bore wrote:
... which leads me to think those locks are put on cases mainly for marketing psychology.

I think they offer an extra safeguard against the case opening accidentally during transport - "Belt and braces". The downside is the risk of losing the key. It's not uncomon to see instrument cases, toolboxes, paintboxes etc with an extra strap. For luggage I have lockable straps but leave one of the keys in an outside pocket.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:39 am 
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Location: Hamburg, Germany
Maissenbacher.de sells the appropriate stuff, though only in quantities of 1000 or so. I have got them to send me a couple of sliding latches as a sample which should sort out the current box, but it is still not a solution for later ones. I am not really ready to buy 2000 latches (left and right) for stock. And I don't really fancy trying to punt them individually on ebay either. They do seem to have all the appropriate hinges and so on though.

Reflecting on the options, buying some kind of cheap finished case and stripping the hardware may actually turn out to be the most effective solution - doesn't help with my environmental attitudes about waste though.

_________________
19th October, 2012:
Flute: Rookery
Flute: Musical Priest
Flute: Swinging on the Gate
Flute: Sally Gardens
4th June 2012:
Flute: Rolling in the Ryegrass, Green Gates
2 April, 2012:
Smallpipes: The Meeting of the Waters. Corn Riggs
Smallpipes: Mrs Hamilton of Pithcaithland


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:39 pm 
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I think the person I got the suggestion of www.spryco.uk from said the button catches came from Germany, so probably Maissenbacher.de. A minimum order was mentioned but I don't think it was 1000 Maybe someone is buying them by the 1000 and selling them with a big markup in smaller quantities.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:19 am 
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Ok - not quite finished yet, but I thought I would share a few photos. I still have to do the lining of the case and fit the sliding catches. Though I may leave the catches off -still not sure about that... I may add something to the rectangles on the lid, but I am out of ideas right now... This is commercial oak - none of my own harvested wood is suitable (yet). I would like to try walnut and maybe a few other timbers.

First of all, while gluing the internal divider:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/AcGyrQ2g4ajBcAV99

The current fit of the keyless F by Hammy. The dishcloth will be replaced by glued-in padding.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/gcLBkUjV1JPnKKaW8

The hinges - the next ones will be fitted more cleanly. I may grind off the corners of the hinges where they stick out slightly in the lid.:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/x2X2yxAz7Ma3qXTc8

Hinges and case from outside:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zeRCFW4KJZYq6Bv37

From the front:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zVUp5wQaHJDpUrsd6

And the bottom of the box:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pGwdxV7tsEuPJkyn6

And these are the catches that were sent to me as a sample by Maissenbacher and are, I presume, sold by Spry. There are two sizes, about 1cm different in length. The picture is of the larger ones. There are small brass screws to go with them.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/AeKK2FYz141TRnZB7

One thing that I have learnt is that I suspect that the work of making one of these is about one half of the work of making twenty... Much of the time is tool setup and thinking about how to do it. And the end results would be a lot cleaner - It gives me a real feel for the truth of Adam Smith. Though neither in all likelihood would recoup my hourly rate, especially with carving. Still, I have a few more flutes needing cases and I would like to have a go at the combined multi-instrument case and gig stand that I mentioned in a post a while ago.

I will also post if I sort out the hardware supply issue - Spry have yet to answer my mail, so I will probably have to phone.

Chris.

_________________
19th October, 2012:
Flute: Rookery
Flute: Musical Priest
Flute: Swinging on the Gate
Flute: Sally Gardens
4th June 2012:
Flute: Rolling in the Ryegrass, Green Gates
2 April, 2012:
Smallpipes: The Meeting of the Waters. Corn Riggs
Smallpipes: Mrs Hamilton of Pithcaithland


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:23 am 
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Location: Hamburg, Germany
And I have bought a new belt sander as a result of this project - Record Power BDS 150. Too late for this box and only just arrived, but should make the next one easier. I was using a hand sander clamped in the bench vice - this worked, but required care to prevent gouges from the edges of the sanding area.

The chip carving pattern is inspired by this: https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/58136 though he is working with a softer wood, probably sharper tools and certainly more skill than I have.

_________________
19th October, 2012:
Flute: Rookery
Flute: Musical Priest
Flute: Swinging on the Gate
Flute: Sally Gardens
4th June 2012:
Flute: Rolling in the Ryegrass, Green Gates
2 April, 2012:
Smallpipes: The Meeting of the Waters. Corn Riggs
Smallpipes: Mrs Hamilton of Pithcaithland


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:21 am 
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That is a lovely case. It looks like you had a great time making it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:52 am 
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Out of curiosity, how heavy is the case—oak is pretty hefty isn't it? And how deep is the carving on the knotwork design and your signature? Nice bit of work. Look forward to seeing the finished lining also.

Best wishes.

Steve

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:13 am 
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The case with no lining and no flute is 625g. Could be lighter. The signature is probably everywhere between 1 or 2mm. The lid of the case was of thicker wood to accommodate the carving - deep parts of carving up to 3mm.

(Comparison: My Northwind flute case for the Windward D/Eflat combo with two feet and two barrels is 725g empty.)

And yes, weight might be a good reason to pick a different wood, though I could probably have made the whole thing thinner. The main construction was from 6mm boards, the top started slightly over 8mm thick. The internal lip connecting top and bottom when closed adds considerably to the strength, so thinner walls would probably have been fine. I can stand on the box as it is right now, so that may be slight overkill.

The signature was cut with a chip carving knife from an authentic signature pencilled directly on to the wood. The knotwork was a mixture of chip carving and cleaning up with small chisels, particularly skew ones. Also my small bullnose very slightly curved gouge (#2?) did a lot of service cleaning up the edges. This particular gouge used to belong to my great grandfather and seems to be made of a small sliver of Excalibur. It takes and holds an edge that has to be felt to be believed, except that you would not feel it of course...

Laying out the knotwork was done by heat transferring a laser printed pattern of dots 4mm apart on to the wood and then drawing the knotwork out by hand. I had already done the whole pattern on paper so that I knew how many nodes would be needed for the size of the lid. I considered tracing, but found that fixing the original and tracing paper was rather hard and 1mm of slip makes a serious dent in the pattern.

_________________
19th October, 2012:
Flute: Rookery
Flute: Musical Priest
Flute: Swinging on the Gate
Flute: Sally Gardens
4th June 2012:
Flute: Rolling in the Ryegrass, Green Gates
2 April, 2012:
Smallpipes: The Meeting of the Waters. Corn Riggs
Smallpipes: Mrs Hamilton of Pithcaithland


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:20 am 
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ChrisCracknell wrote:
This particular gouge used to belong to my great grandfather and seems to be made of a small sliver of Excalibur. It takes and holds an edge that has to be felt to be believed, except that you would not feel it of course...

At least, not twice. No thought of using a Dremel-type tool for the carving?

Best wishes.

Steve

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:35 am 
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I power carve too, but for this sort of thing I find direct cutting gives a cleaner line and surface, especially at corners. This pattern has many corners... It is actually a hanging motor that I use rather than a Dremel. I also use bigger wood chewing tools too from time to time, up to the chainsaw... Sanding (necessary after power carving) in the corners of a pattern like this would also have been horrible to do. All things considered, the hand tools were a better choice here. For me. If I only had a Dremel then I might use that, but for a different style of pattern.

_________________
19th October, 2012:
Flute: Rookery
Flute: Musical Priest
Flute: Swinging on the Gate
Flute: Sally Gardens
4th June 2012:
Flute: Rolling in the Ryegrass, Green Gates
2 April, 2012:
Smallpipes: The Meeting of the Waters. Corn Riggs
Smallpipes: Mrs Hamilton of Pithcaithland


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:33 pm 
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Location: Hood River, Oregon, USA
Really nice job with the flute case Chris! That carving on the front must have taken a lot of work, especially in a hard wood
like oak.

I've spent quite a lot of time looking into various options for home made flute cases and I always end up bumping into the same
two obstacles. The first is not being able to find a source for the catches -- those two you got look perfect, by the way. The second
is the realization that it takes a heck of a lot of work to make a nice, wooden case. There is great pleasure in using an item you made
yourself, of course, but it would be very difficult to justify making cases as an economically viable commercial venture, unless you
are looking at the very high quality, expensive end of the market.

I'm currently in the midst of trying to rework one of these solid wood Chinese flute cases. My idea is to pull out the lining in the
bottom half, and use my milling machine to make the necessary modifications to the recesses in the base in order to fit my flute,
and then reline those recesses. Simply carving out the necessary recesses would work too. My hope is that I can accomplish this in
such a way that the modification is not too obvious after the fact. I already have the case itself in hand, and it seems to be very nice
quality indeed. It would be difficult for me to obtain the raw materials for less than the price I can get a complete case shipped to my
house.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:00 pm 
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Hi Paddler,

I had one of those cases a while ago for a Boehm flute - I don't know where it is now. I remember it being relatively heavy for the flute in question at the time, though my idea of heavy may have mutated since then. I agree, you cannot get the materials for the price for which these things are sold. If you machined the case carefully to support the tenons of your flute, so that the body was hanging free between closely fitted "sockets" in the case then you could be quite brutal about removing material elsewhere, e.g. for space for keys, stylistic reasons, cork grease etc. That would be an appropriate use for a dremel with a wood chewing bit, e.g. those from https://www.saburrtooth.com/ . Followed by an appropriate sanding bit. Support for the tenons could be cut out precisely outside the box and then glued into place - it would make it easier to get them right.

Hmmm. Now you've got me irritated - I am trying to remember what happened to the case that I used have? It was about 15 years ago, so my memory is not that fresh. At the time, I was not as far as I am now in terms of being prepared to manipulate the shape of wood.

The knotwork carving isn't actually that labour intensive once you have worked out how to lay it out and what cuts are needed - it is very repetitive.

Chris.

_________________
19th October, 2012:
Flute: Rookery
Flute: Musical Priest
Flute: Swinging on the Gate
Flute: Sally Gardens
4th June 2012:
Flute: Rolling in the Ryegrass, Green Gates
2 April, 2012:
Smallpipes: The Meeting of the Waters. Corn Riggs
Smallpipes: Mrs Hamilton of Pithcaithland


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