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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:23 pm 
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Hi I am not sure If I have done the link for a post picture correctly.... I am useless with technology, and have never really used a forum, my partner suggested a forum for my interest in flute whistles (not sure if that is what it is that is how much I know about this) I apologies if I have not.

I was just wondering if anyone would be able to help me with any details about this flute whistle I have. I can't really give any information about it as I purchased it from like an second hand shop. Was hoping someone would know where the flute is from possibly what decade 80's or 90's. Just trying to find out some info so I can try to find another to purchase.

Thanks for any help and time taken to reply.

Kindest regards Rach


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:24 pm 
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Hi,
that's not a whistle nor a flute,
I would say some kind of chanter but cannot say more.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:43 pm 
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Google suggests it may be a Khlui, a vertical duct flute from Thailand.

It has a fipple, so it's related to whistles in that regard. The six holes suggest a diatonic scale of some sort. If you have a tuner, or can get a tuner app on your phone, you might test what notes it's actually playing and see what key it is in.

Question though: If it's a chanter, wouldn't it have a reed?

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Last edited by michaelpthompson on Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:59 pm 
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radcliff wrote:
Hi,
that's not a whistle nor a flute,
I would say some kind of chanter but cannot say more.

It does resemble an uilleann pipe chanter at first glance, but it has a fipple window and blade, and it's all one piece - on a UP chanter, the top few inches of the body should be a removable reed cap, and there would be no wind blade or any other aperture resembling one. Also notice the positioning of the finger holes: if it were a chanter, they should be aligned with the blow-tube's axis, not set off to the side like that; it's an arrangement that would be utterly unusable in a typical piping context. Instead, I think it's made to be played in transverse fashion recalling sideblown flutes, the mouth blowing into the wee tube sticking out from the side, filling the chamber before the blade, and the rest operating functionally the same as a whistle or any other duct flute.

Very odd-looking. The finial at the top end suggests India to me, somehow. Awfully beat up, too; how's it play?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:35 pm 
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Here's a pic of sideblown fipple flutes (!) that I posted a while back:

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You can just barely see the mouthpieces on some of them, to the left. It's the same basic principle I was trying to convey in my previous post, the only difference being that these don't have a blow tube, just a hole.

For those who are interested, I saw these used in vids of Japanese Iwami Kagura performances. Haven't seen them in any other style of Kagura dance, so they may be more or less unique to the Iwami, which is probably the least conservative and most performance-driven among Kagura styles. Fipple flutes are extremely atypical among traditional Japanese instruments - I would even be tempted to assert that up to this they have for all intents and purposes been nonexistent - so I assume that this design is a recent borrowed innovation, intended to dispense with the need for developing an embouchure while at the same time retaining the traditional sideblown aspect; normally, there would be no fipple, just a standard embouchure hole as on any other sideblown flute.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:58 pm 
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Thank you all for your help

As stated in the replies yes it is very beaten up lol. It does play though, I love the sound to it has a soft sound to it,
sort of like a flute kind of sound, but in saying that I am not even sure if I am doing it right! I sure if it was in better condition and someone else who has more experience in playing these would make it sound completely different to what I do.
It plays the same key's as my tin whistle which his in the key of D (If I have that right and that makes sense).

I am trying to find some where that they may be able to put back into shape if this is possible, probably not, but worth a try.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:52 pm 
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I have one that is similar but in low F. It has a ‘bocal’ running back along the body (similar to a bass recorder) and was purported to be Thai. Picked it up in a Knick-knack shop in Victoria. It’s ok, but I can’t be bothered to Dremel the intonation into submission.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:49 pm 
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Here's another pic of this kind of instrument (the only other one I could find on the Net), from eBay:

Image

As I suspected, it's Indian, and as I also suspected, its bell is meant to recall the shenai, an oboe-like woodwind - which, I might add, is not played in such transverse fashion. You just don't know which end is up with this baby. To my surprise, in the comments at the bottom of the page the seller seemed relatively well-informed re: the difference between fippled and embouchure-holed winds, although the metal is (erroneously, I would say, if one is to go by the picture) called aluminum. Unfortunately for Emmerzael, that sale is over.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Functional-Ind ... 2454087490

The good news, I suppose, is that at least you know which country you might direct further inquiries to.

I would also suggest that you might have a better chance in directing further inquiries to the Whistle Forum, although TBH I think this particular item would be a first, and no one there would be any the wiser, either. But who knows? In any case, here at C&F we differentiate terminologically between flutes and whistles, and your instrument, while technically a fipple flute, is in the end what we would call a whistle, chimaera that it is.

Thanks to this inquiry I have learned that the Indian term "bansuri" includes their fippled instruments, which Wikipedia confirms. I never would have guessed.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:59 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
Here's another pic of this kind of instrument (the only other one I could find on the Net), from eBay:

Image

As I suspected, it's Indian

It is indeed. I have one without the bell.
I bought mine at a head shop in my
misspent youth.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:27 pm 
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oleorezinator wrote:
I have one without the bell.
I bought mine at a head shop in my
misspent youth.

THOSE were the days: When a head shop was not just a one-trick-pony paraphernalia boutique, but a hallowed node of world culture and underground publishing. If you were out of patchouli oil, you didn't go to the pharmacy, but to the head shop. Turquoise? The head shop. R. Crumb comics? Exotic scarves and other oddments from what might as well have been Timbuktu? The head shop. I don't remember it, but I had to have seen one of those flutesque whistles at some time in such places.

... Actually, I must disclose that a friend told me that. I was just re-living vicariously. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:30 pm 
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How can a youth in head shops be misspent?

You'all should see (if you haven't already) the recreational
cannabis dispensaries in Colorado, an hour to the north of
me. Deja vue all over again. No musical instruments, though.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:14 pm 
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oleorezinator wrote:
It is indeed. I have one without the bell.
I bought mine at a head shop in my
misspent youth.

Ah yes, I still have 1/2 of a tabla set I bought back in the day, at some Indian-themed hippie shop in San Francisco. It's the aluminum body one (bayan?) for the left hand. Amazingly, it's still playable after... uh, 45 years. The other right-hand drum with a wood body cracked after a few years but this one still works. Not that I can play it in any authentic way, but it's a great drum for the grand kids to beat on. It's practically indestructible.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:01 pm 
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Conical bore wrote:
...The ... right-hand drum with a wood body cracked after a few years but this one still works. Not that I can play it in any authentic way, but it's a great drum for the grand kids to beat on. It's practically indestructible.

Just so's I'm clear on this, only the left hand drum is indestructible? :wink:

Best wishes.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:37 pm 
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Steve Bliven wrote:
Just so's I'm clear on this, only the left hand drum is indestructible? :wink:

Yes! Because it's just an aluminum shell with calf skin (?) on top, and deer tendon (?) straps. That stuff lasts forever, or at least a lifetime. A wood shell on the other drum, not so much. This was years before I learned about things like humidity control for wooden instruments. This was pre-Internet, pre-World Wide Web. It wasn't easy to get information back on the Medieval Dark Ages before the Internet.

If I had been able to research back then, how many years and dedication it actually took to learn how to play tabla (verbal tika-ta-tika-ta before you even touch the actual instrument), I never would have bought it: :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:29 pm 
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jim stone wrote:
You'all should see (if you haven't already) the recreational
cannabis dispensaries in Colorado, an hour to the north of
me. Deja vue all over again.

Apart from one very pertinent detail: No sensible head shop ever dared offer the bewitching vegetable (to misappropriate one Col. Wm. Evelyn Byrd) under its auspices. All you got were the tchotchkes of the subculture that went with it. If you were hoping to score there, or even suggested an item would be used for anything other than tobacco (Byrd's actual reference), you would of necessity be shown the door. You don't stay in business long playing so fast and loose with the law. Even clean, the head shop was a tightrope act as it was; most communities had laws in various degree against the very pipes and bongs they were selling, so proprietors got around those laws either with feats of legal legerdemain, or they wagered on enforcement's lack of zeal. There was a limit to pushing that envelope, and the successful ones knew it.

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