Question re initial flute/fife learning.

[MichaelRS]

So, with your common 3-piece concert/band flute you have the head joint, the body and the foot joint. And when they teach you to play it, in order to get the initial embouchure and sound, they have you just working with the head joint.

But obviously if you have a 1 piece full-size folk flute or something like a Fife you don't have a head joint to remove, so you're just working with the whole thing trying to get a sound out of it. Yes?
I'm asking because I really can't think of what any other method or choice there is when dealing with those types of instruments, except diving in and going full bore...pun intended.

[tstermitz]

Yeah, just go full bore...

The G note is probably easiest (XXX 000), and then G A B or G F# D.

Not to say it is easy. Pretty rough for the first month or so; just keep at it. Eventually your embouchure comes in and the full two octaves are accessible. Your tone continues to improve of the next couple of years.

[MichaelRS]

Yeah, just go full bore...

The G note is probably easiest (XXX 000), and then G A B or G F# D.

Not to say it is easy. Pretty rough for the first month or so; just keep at it. Eventually your embouchure comes in and the full two octaves are accessible. Your tone continues to improve of the next couple of years.

Thank you. I just got a one piece version of this G fife/flute instrument from this fellow (video link below) and after a couple of days I'm doing "okay" on it. Making what I think is relatively good progress.

But I also got one of the full size D Irish flute models (because you need one of those, right? ) that is giving me trouble. Which I'm sure is simply my lack of experience and proper flute embouchure. So I guess if I can work with the G and develop it better then the one for the D might come easier

But yeah, on the D XXXOOO is a lot "easier" than XXXXOO and lower. And right when that 4th finger goes down my ability to play or hold a note degrades markedly and gets worse on down to the D.
Thanks for the pointers

https://youtu.be/5LJzKvpZzxM

[Steampacket]

Steph Geremia's flute lesson no. 1 has some good pointers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goCd1mEWsWs

This beginner Irish flute lesson shows you how to play the flute step by step. Specifically you will learn about -
00:24 The instrument
00:52 The embouchure
04:29 Holding the flute
06:16 Lip position & air direction
07:05 Irish flute set up
09:16 Playing the notes

[fatmac]

When I started on the low 'D', I couldn't get the lower notes either, it had somethig to do with my changing embouchure as I reached to cover the lower holes. But it comes after a while, so just keep at it.

(My 'F' flute is quite a bit easier to play, than my 'D', feels more natural, somehow.)

[MichaelRS]

Thank you all for your informational resources and the encouragement of your experiences. I appreciate it

[mendipman]

In the initial stages my teacher didn't suggest we use the head joint only. The early focus of lessons was almost exclusively on embouchure, but using the whole flute (and a mirror). That worked for me. Looking back I can see how that approach also simultaneously helped to make the basics of good posture quickly feel natural without my becoming self-conscious about how to hold the flute.

As others have said, our tone develops over time. The fun part of that is noticing and enjoying the improvement. That, and the obvious practical aspect of learning on a decent quality flute; nothing demotivates like an instrument that makes it hard or impossible to get any sound at all.

[MichaelRS]

In the initial stages my teacher didn't suggest we use the head joint only. The early focus of lessons was almost exclusively on embouchure, but using the whole flute (and a mirror). That worked for me. Looking back I can see how that approach also simultaneously helped to make the basics of good posture quickly feel natural without my becoming self-conscious about how to hold the flute.

As others have said, our tone develops over time. The fun part of that is noticing and enjoying the improvement. That, and the obvious practical aspect of learning on a decent quality flute; nothing demotivates like an instrument that makes it hard or impossible to get any sound at all.

Yes, thank you. I based my assumption that it was common practice to use the head joint based on a lot of YouTube videos I've been watching relateing to beginners on concert type flutes. Mostly have been learning about that by watching the channels titled
Just another flutist
Katie flute
The flute Channel
Sir James Galway

But since I don't have the $600 to plunk down for a decent student model flute, of those types, for now going with the ones that I linked to and mentioned above. And hopefully along with the advice I get here something will come of it.
Thank you for your response

[PB+J]

I've been playing the flute pretty intensely for a couple months now, and I've made progress, but seem to have hit a wall. I can get a nice hard clear tone for a short time but just can't manage the wind effectively enough to play a whole tune well.

I'm having a private lesson Friday with a local player of Irish Traditional Music. It's a fairly hard instrument.

[jim stone]

Yeah, flute is difficult.

[MichaelRS]

I've been playing the flute pretty intensely for a couple months now, and I've made progress, but seem to have hit a wall. I can get a nice hard clear tone for a short time but just can't manage the wind effectively enough to play a whole tune well.

I'm having a private lesson Friday with a local player of Irish Traditional Music. It's a fairly hard instrument.

Well, elementary and junior high School age kids do it, not a few at that age with a reasonable amount of success. I was hoping in such a matters that I could be as capable as a 12 or 13 year old.

In elementary school and junior high I played the clarinet. In junior high I was 5th chair.
We actually only had 3 chair positions but the music teacher wanted to make sure there was a noticeable separation between me and the other kids who could really play


But seriously, I'm wondering if when it comes to getting some basic sound if it's more difficult to play an open system flu like an Irish flute or a Fife versus the concert type flute, or is it half a dozen of one and six of the other? Anyone?

[tstermitz]

Flute embouchures vary in how easy it is to get a tone out of them. I assume you have a flute from reputable maker, but even then...

Some flutes are quite easy (relatively), while others are more difficult. That isn't to say the difficult embouchure flute is bad, just that it takes more fine motor control or "focus".

My Solen Lesouef was very easy (In retrospect), compared with my Firth Pond & Co. Changing to the antique it was like starting over, and it took me 9 months to become stable on it. Now, I love the tone I am getting. And, I don't like it so much when I change back to a more generous (and bigger) embouchure.

I'm sure I would have improved on the Solen Lesouef over those 9 months, so this isn't definitive, other than to point out that flutes differ.

[tstermitz]

Like I said, Start with the G-note, and walk up A, B C. Then walk down G, F#, E, D

At first D will be hard.

Look up Long-tone exercises. Daily... More daily...

As my low D came in, my next challenge was the C. Consistency on the low D and C is what took the 9 months on my new flute.

Initially I had troubles in the second octave (partly due to my lip shape, and I had to change to a side-embouchure). Again, walk up from G, A, B and Down...Now I can play very was the high-C and D and fairly easily up to E & F.

[Conical bore]

I've been playing the flute pretty intensely for a couple months now, and I've made progress, but seem to have hit a wall. I can get a nice hard clear tone for a short time but just can't manage the wind effectively enough to play a whole tune well.

I'm having a private lesson Friday with a local player of Irish Traditional Music. It's a fairly hard instrument.

It just takes time, and you can't realize at this stage how much time. Especially the breath reservoir and breathing, and how much that depends on embouchure development that makes it easier, but doesn't come overnight.

There is a tune I was trying to learn for the longest time as a beginner, a Breton tune called the "Marche Des Charbonniers" from the Trio Brezh set on a Lunasa album. And I mean I tried for a couple of years, hitting the notes but not having enough air to finish the B part without gasping for breath, while still being able to play other more standard tunes.

And then suddenly last summer, I had the wind for it. Right out of the blue. I wasn't even doing anything special to develop more air, just a gradual improvement in a tight embouchure that meant I wasn't wasting so much air. It was like magic! Suddenly I could play this tune that had defeated me for what seemed like forever, but it was just a couple of years as a beginner (and a late starter at that, in my early 60's).

So yes, it takes time. Don't give up. It might appear one day like magic, if you just keep at it! Don't expect it to happen in just a few months, but the end result is worth it.

[jim stone]

Patience. Practice. Patience. Practice.

Without practice you go nowhere. Without patience you drive yourself crazy.

As people on this forum said to me seventeen years ago, when I wrote a post
about how hard it was 'Flute playing isn't for the faint of heart.' It is very difficult
to practice, always trying to do something better, while being patient with the apparent
absence of progress. A skill widely applicable in life.