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Rudall and Rose Boxwood Flute
http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=108014
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Author:  scott1971charlie [ Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Rudall and Rose Boxwood Flute

Hello,

We inherited a beautiful instrument from a member of our family. On speaking to an person online I understand that it is a Rudall and Rose Boxwood Flute.

It has Rudall and Rose 15 Piazza Covent Garden London and the number 1980 on it. It is in 4 interconnecting sections. It appears to be in very good condition apart from a hairline crack running down from the mouth piece or lip plate section. I understand that the address dates it from 1827-1837 ish.

Additionally it has what I am told are pewter keys and ivory finish.

I have been offered £1200 for this instrument by the gentleman who may very well be on this forum, I don't know.

Any thoughts on this would be gratefully received as we are definitely in the market to sell this

Many thanks in advance

Author:  Loren [ Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall and Rose Boxwood Flute

If you post pictures, or links to pictures, we may be better able help you.

Author:  Steampacket [ Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall and Rose Boxwood Flute

A photo or two would help to assess the flute, but does it have silver eight keys (six keys shaped like salt spoons, and two articulated pewter keys in the last section, the foot joint? Are all the ivory rings in place? Is there an ivory insert in the embouchure hole in the head joint? Does it have the original box with a certificate signed by George Rudall and John Rose in the lid with perhaps the flute's serial number 1980? Does the end of the head joint have an ivory cap or a silver cap? Rudall & Rose boxwood flutes are coveted by some players/collectors and even with the cracked head joint I'd say the flute is worth more than £1200.
Do you know anything more about the history of the flute, owners, whereabouts it was purchased?

Author:  kkrell [ Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall and Rose Boxwood Flute

I agree there are too many unknown variables to assess its value. Photos would help. Many things affect the desirability. Condition and possible other areas requiring repair add to the costs for a buyer to place it back in service. Total or sounding length to indicate the pitch, size of fingerholes, tuning slide, # of keys are also factors. Usually pewter is seen on 2 or 3 footjoint keys, with sterling or cheaper metals used for other keys and key-shafts. Boxwood often warps into a banana shape - that can be a negative. Ivory makes it impossible in its current configuration to ship or carry across international borders, reducing the potential market for the instrument.

If it looks similar to this one ( https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202566763084 ) except for the different wood color & has ivory instead of silver embellishments (rings & end cap for instance), it could easily be worth GBP 1800-2500 or so.

Author:  busterbill [ Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall and Rose Boxwood Flute

Yes, pictures can help people advise you. The price can vary depending on the condition. There are a number of people with experience in antique flutes on this forum who do repairs and know the market quite well. As mentioned in at least one other post measuring the flute will give some idea if it plays in modern pitch or high pitch. That may or may not affect the price if you are going for the collectors market, but it will if you are looking at the players market. Repairs can be simple or costly. The keys may or may not seal. The crack may be a simple or complicated repair. There may be other cracks that are not so obvious. Even the existence and condition of the case will effect the price. So the price quoted you might not be that bad if there are many repairs required, it is a high pitch instrument, or the case is gone. Or it might be you could do better. All that said, it is nice to have another Rudall Rose turn up. At one point Terry McGee was making a list of all the existing Rudall and Rose flutes. I'd contact him through his website and have him advise you on how to measure it to be added to the data base.

Author:  paddler [ Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall and Rose Boxwood Flute

You should check into the laws governing the trade of ivory, or objects containing ivory, in your location. It is no
longer legal to trade objects containing ivory, including antiques, in some regions. That said, boxwood Rudall and
Rose flutes are in high demand and can command a high price, so it might be worth your while finding a maker
or restorer who can replace the ivory components (rings? cork holder? embouchure insert?) with imitation ivory
copies. This is fairly easy to do, and while it will cost a fair amount, it would allow you to legally sell it and still make
a substantial profit.

Author:  scott1971charlie [ Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall and Rose Boxwood Flute

Many thanks for your comments.

I am new to these types of forums so belief it or not I was struggling in the wee small hours of this morning to upload images to this site. I think I have now via instagram but I am waiting for the image to be ok'd by the moderators.

The instrument has a hairline crack running down from the mouth piece or hole. Apart from this it is in very good condition.
The keys are pewter and there is ivory rings around the joining parts of the flute.

Many thanks again.

Author:  jemtheflute [ Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall and Rose Boxwood Flute

Almost certainly worth considerably more than £1200. The keys will be silver, not pewter, apart from pewter plugs instead of cups on some of them. #1980 won't have a case lid certificate even if it has an original case - at least, whilst I don't recall the earliest flute with a certificate, I think it's rather later than this. #1980 will have been made c1831-2 by my estimation - I worked out a probable date for #1982 a year or so back! A flute from the early 1830s will not be high pitch. It's more likely to be best at a lower pitch than A440, but 440 should be within its scope. Once I see photos and know the sounding length I can say more. See this video to learn how to take a sounding length: https://youtu.be/2sz-ixD34ho

If you use Facebook, come join the Flute History Channel there and post about your flute - plenty of expert input and easy to post photos!

If of interest, there's a video appraisal of #1982 here, with links to photos and discussion on Facebook: https://youtu.be/LXlR8zCuviw

Author:  Jon C. [ Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall and Rose Boxwood Flute

scott1971charlie wrote:
Many thanks for your comments.

I am new to these types of forums so belief it or not I was struggling in the wee small hours of this morning to upload images to this site. I think I have now via instagram but I am waiting for the image to be ok'd by the moderators.

The instrument has a hairline crack running down from the mouth piece or hole. Apart from this it is in very good condition.
The keys are pewter and there is ivory rings around the joining parts of the flute.

Many thanks again.

You can post images using postimage.org it is a free site, and easy to use.
If you would like the flute restored, Let me know, lots of people would be interested in it, in this area too... Though, I am located in San Diego.

Author:  jemtheflute [ Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall and Rose Boxwood Flute

Jon C. wrote:
If you would like the flute restored, Let me know, lots of people would be interested in it, in this area too... Though, I am located in San Diego.


If, as I think probable, the flute is in Britain, there'd be serious potential logistical problems with your kind offer, Jon - ivory transit restrictions and duties on reimport to GB. :-/

Author:  Flutesoftheforest [ Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall and Rose Boxwood Flute

It is quite possible that all the keys have pewter plugs , very much in the style of Potter. Bigio shows #655 to be one such flute.

Author:  Steampacket [ Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall and Rose Boxwood Flute

Quote:
#1980 won't have a case lid certificate even if it has an original case - at least, whilst I don't recall the earliest flute with a certificate, I think it's rather later than this.
Jem.

Yes that's right, In the register the earliest flute I have with a case lid certificate is no. 2305.

Author:  scott1971charlie [ Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall and Rose Boxwood Flute

I am in Scotland, perth to be exact.

Author:  Steampacket [ Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall and Rose Boxwood Flute

scott1971charlie are all the 8 keys pewter keys, do they all look the same? Do you have facebook account? If so you could join the Flute History Channel and it's easy to post some photos of the flute there as Jem mentioned. Have you considered keeping the flute and learning to play it?

Author:  scott1971charlie [ Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudall and Rose Boxwood Flute

[img]https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs-PQ_ihJj8/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1r9oeeuqb1zac[img]

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