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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:40 pm 
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Yes, I know when it comes to flute playing EASY isn't really the right word, but that title was to hopefully just get the attention of some who can give the necessary advice.

I'm wondering what type of 6 hole keyless flute might be less frustrating for a beginner to start on?

I mean is there a key or bore size or both that might be less forgiving of one's lack of a 100% proper embouchure over other types of flutes? The key being less important at this time regarding whether or not it plays well with other instruments.

I'm thinking about a quality PVC one from one of the independent craftsman out there because of price. I know about Doug Tipple and I'm also looking at the guy from the link below. Suggestions for other similar craftsmen who work in that media would be appreciated.

https://www.mywhistleandflute.com/flutes/


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:46 am 
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Apart from owning a Boehm flute I bought years ago, I started out with a Tony Dixon ABS low D flute, (about £37), it took me a while to regain a reasonable embouchure, whilst being able to cover all the holes, but I can do it after just a little practice.

(However, I did buy a Damian Thompson delrin beginner flute with offset holes as my 'proper' keyless simple system flute - easier to cover the holes.)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:21 am 
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MichaelRS wrote:
Yes, I know when it comes to flute playing EASY isn't really the right word, but that title was to hopefully just get the attention of some who can give the necessary advice.

I'm wondering what type of 6 hole keyless flute might be less frustrating for a beginner to start on?

I mean is there a key or bore size or both that might be less forgiving of one's lack of a 100% proper embouchure over other types of flutes? The key being less important at this time regarding whether or not it plays well with other instruments.

I'm thinking about a quality PVC one from one of the independent craftsman out there because of price. I know about Doug Tipple and I'm also looking at the guy from the link below. Suggestions for other similar craftsmen who work in that media would be appreciated.

https://www.mywhistleandflute.com/flutes/

The Tipple is well-regarded for an inexpensive start. Although it still might be a reach for the fingers (being a cylindrical bore), Doug does try to make them comfortable. I don't really see any advantage to getting one of the flutes smaller than D (E, Eb, F, G) for learning.

Hammy Hamilton's practice flute is more challenging on the embouchure, and, also being cylindrical, can be a handful. Probably sounds the most like a real session instrument, though. Only slightly less affordable than a Tipple.

If the budget is there, I'd rather see you get a folk flute from Casey Burns, or Delrin flutes from Dave Copley or Garry Somers.

Should you ever come to the Long Beach session at the Auld Dubliner on a Sunday (or this Friday's Kevin Crawford concert in Altadena), I might be able to meet you with a couple of instruments to try.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:51 am 
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I bought a Walt sweet “Shannon” flute used for a very good price. . “Easy” is not the word I’d use, but it is both much easier and much more fun than the two six hole flutes I can compare it to, a tony Dixon flute/low whistle combo and a really inexpensive wooden flute bought on eBay, probably from pakistan or somewhere in Asia. The Shannon is world's better than either of those. It has a very warm, dark tone to start with and I can get that dark reedy Irish tone pretty regularly now. It’s very well made and feels good in the hands. The only thing I don’t like about it is a weak low “E”, noticeably quieter than the low D, and to a lesser extent a weaker F#. The bell note, low d, is very strong and authoritative, and I can’t get the the next highest notes to sound with the same authority.

Keep in mind I’m a terrible flute player with little or no experience


Last edited by PB+J on Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:34 am 
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Dave Copley's bottom of the line delrin flute is great for beginners,
and will serve you long after you are no longer beginning. FWIW


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:20 pm 
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FWIW.....any student I have had who is brand new to the instrument, I begin them on not only the flute, but also the penny whistle. Depends on age and size of hands, too, whether it's a D, a Bb or otherwise. (whistle that is)
The objective is to ensure there is some fun to be had from the learning process, which is difficult enough without all the additional frustrations of non-accomplishment.
On the whistle you are learning the basic fingerings and movements, as well as actually starting to produce simple tunes.
On the flute you are to work embochure and position, which hardly accommodates itself to actual tunes for a bit of time.
Doing one without the other, to me, is a recipe for either frustration or outright failure, and what we should be doing is making sure there is some measure of progress that is enjoyable.

Remember, too....embouchure holes are relative to the size of the flute. Smaller hole is harder to produce tones without the developed lip. Degree of undercut (or lesser) is also a challenging aspect to keep in mind.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:40 am 
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kkrell wrote:
The Tipple is well-regarded for an inexpensive start. Although it still might be a reach for the fingers (being a cylindrical bore), Doug does try to make them comfortable. I don't really see any advantage to getting one of the flutes smaller than D (E, Eb, F, G) for learning.


I know this might seem like heresy, but I would really warn anyone trying to start flute on a Tipple. Doug provides great value for the money, but I find these are hard for beginners. I started my Irish flute journey on a Tipple as a recovering Boehm player, so I didn't have an issue with it, but I think the finger stretch makes it difficult to get good tone or responsiveness. It's just so easy to have a hole slightly uncovered, and my fingers are on the longer side. I have seen whistle players bring Tipples to our session and not be able to get much of a sound, but they do much better when I lend them one of my conical flutes. It is possible to play great music on a Tipple - that's why they are such bang for the buck. But, do they discourage as many players due to their inherent design as they attract due to price point? Again, Doug makes them as playable as they could possibly be, but they strike me either as good "beater" instruments or good for someone who already plays the Boehm flute and wants to give simple system flutes a test drive. If you can spend the extra money, I'd pick any cheaper conical instrument over a Tipple (excluding the unplayable mystery flutes on E-bay, of course). Hold out for a used Sweet, Forbes, Copley, Baubet, Burns folk flute, up-and-coming maker of the week, etc. I think you'll be happier in the short- and long-run vs. going with a PVC instrument, regardless of the maker.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:03 am 
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And if, at the end of the day, flute isn't for you, you can get a good deal of the money you spent on the better, more easily playable flute, by selling it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:39 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgX_ieOLN_k

Here's a Shannon--which is the least expensive delrin flute I'm aware of.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:00 am 
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Jim, I think you are overlooking Tony Dixon's DX030, coming in at about 175 GBP.

Bob

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:50 am 
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The Tony Dixon one piece ABS flute, at about £37, it isn't 'easy', but it's light, & cheap (comparatively) - it got me started on flutes again, after a long lay off - finding your embouchure is the hardest part of playing a flute, it comes & goes when starting out. :tantrum: :lol: :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:00 am 
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The Dixon DX030 is Acetal (delrin). It is three piece, with a conic bore. Mine is an older model, but appears modelled after a Rudall-Rose bore. It does, however have a larger, more modern embouchure cut.

Bob

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:57 am 
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Thanks for the correction. The two flutes are very close in price, I've owned both and, FWIW, the Shannon is much better.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:06 pm 
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I've diddled around with a number of flutes.
I got myself a Casey Burns folk flute last year, and it's the first flute I've ever played that was forgiving enough with the embouchure that I could consistently get a good sound out of it while I was nervous and playing in front of other people ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:11 pm 
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Yes, Casey cuts really good embouchure holes. Playable and with the feeling that there is an even better sound if you go looking for it. Draws one in.

I think the Shannon may be the best delrin flute I've owned. My problem was that my L1 finger was wonky and the L1 hole on the Shannon is uncommonly big, and my finger wobbled. My idiosyncrasy. I am a huge fan of Dave Copley's bottom of the line delrin flute, which has a very good sound, super intonation, strong volume, and is well nigh indestructible. I play it on the street, cause every thing I play on the street sooner or later falls on the street. If I only had the Copley I would be a happy camper.


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