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 Post subject: Flutemaking forum
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:54 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
A question of protocol. Is is appropriate to post technical questions about flutemaking on this C&F forum? I'm not wanting to stray outside the accepted bounds. I can't seem to find any forums for flutemaking on the internet where one can discuss things like Boehm's exact headjoint curvature, the use of metal lathes for turning flutes in blackwood (dust problems), finger hole spacing theory and practice, and the lot! Specifically flute making for the sort of music we discuss here (from recent discussions I find I am not allowed to call them Irish flutes :-))

Should there be a makers' forum topic on C&F?


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 Post subject: Re: Flutemaking forum
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:28 pm 
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There's a flutemakers list on Yahoo, but not very active lately.

Flutemaking gets covered sometimes within other threads here, not sure it needs it's own forum, but could possibly be a dedicated topic (possibly to be pinned to the top by the moderators).

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 Post subject: Re: Flutemaking forum
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:31 pm 
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A question for the Moderators to ponder I think.

As Kevin mentioned we used to have flutemakers.com and the earlyflute list but both of these have gone very quiet. Flute tech discussion probably bores (pun alert!) many readers, but then it's easy to not read such posts. One thought might be to have a general technical list to discuss flute, whistle, pipemaking etc, on the grounds that we makers probably would all benefit from seeing what makers in adjacent fields are up to.

My suggestion would be to let fly with any of the topics you'd like to discuss and this will give the Moderators something practical to ponder over.

I wonder if inclusion of the word "Moderators" in a post sets off alarm bells somewhere? We'll see....


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 Post subject: Re: Flutemaking forum
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:14 am 
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Yes, I'd try it here and see what happens. If it's very little, it doesn't matter.
If there's a lot on this, the permanent sticky might be an option.
Can't tell till we try.


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 Post subject: Re: Flutemaking forum
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:34 am 
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I'm not a maker, but I think it would make interesting reading, (until it gets too technical), for the average player.

A separate forum for makers of all sorts of whistles & flutes, amateur & professional, could be a good idea. :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Flutemaking forum
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:47 am 
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I believe Terry and I made the last two posts on the flutemakers forum, probably a month or so ago.

I'm with the others; this board isn't so overrun that a good discussion of flute making would be unwelcome.

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 Post subject: Re: Flutemaking forum
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:04 am 
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The technical details in acoustics and mechanics are all welcome (to me). I will never make a wooden flute, but the information I get from these discussions is great and I for one read and enjoy details others deal with.
Used to be a wood worker and turner myself so have great respect for those of you with the ability to produce a result that is beautiful in appearance and tone both. Then add the metal-working abilities to those who make keyed flutes and the level of skill is really astounding.
L


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 Post subject: Re: Flutemaking forum
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:50 pm 
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Terry McGee wrote:
I wonder if inclusion of the word "Moderators" in a post sets off alarm bells somewhere?

Do you mean in any tech-assisted, search-bot way? Heavens, no. I just happened to wander past, and I knew right away what the thread's title portended. Of course I'd be curious, so I went in for a look-see. Since there are no alarm bells, I might well have missed what you wrote above, and if I had, TBH we would all have been none the worse off. If people want a mod's attention we still encourage the PM, as ever. There is no Eye of Sauron, and we see no call for one.

Of course you'll just have to take my word for it, won't you. :twisted:

But since I'm here... We're just letting you folks prod and turn this topic over for now. Of all the ideas forwarded so far, other than the wisdom of letting sleeping dogs lie, a sticky would be the most likely. But stickies can accumulate - and have - to the degree that you have to scroll down (and that is more than I would like) before you can access the more general content. We think that's not only a pain, but an eyesore. More than once in the past we've had to deal with the question of how much sticky content is really necessary or even beneficial, and have actually pruned the rosters on occasion, to no ill effect. In general, we prefer to reserve stickies for content that is of ongoing importance to all.

We all know the fate of hyper-specialty forums on this site: the crickets are deafening.

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 Post subject: Re: Flutemaking forum
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:13 pm 
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I'm not a flute maker, but I enjoy reading threads like the one here on PVC temperament. Even if some of it goes over my head, there is often useful info about flutes in general. I almost always learn something I didn't know before. It's also an interesting snapshot of what people are doing these days, new wood species being experimented with, and so on.

I think the time to think about splitting out the topic into a sub-forum, or a forum for all wind instruments covered here, would be if the "maker" threads start crowding out other topics. Based on the recent post count, I don't think that's likely any time soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Flutemaking forum
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:59 pm 
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Well, I reckon that's a go-ahead, Andro. And the chance for the rest of us to display our real ignorance!

And for those who might wonder if they could actually make a flute themselves, the answer is yes. I don't believe any makers are born with remarkable skills, they learn them, and you can too if you want. I didn't do woodwork or metalwork at school - some of my friends did, but I did French and Latin! I didn't do woodwork or metalwork as a hobby either, I just learned to do them when I decided that Australia would be a better place if we had some flutes. (I still have the notes I wrote on this topic back in 1974 when I was on my fact-finding mission to England, Scotland and Ireland.)

So if anyone gets the urge, don't hesitate. It is the best fun!


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 Post subject: Re: Flutemaking forum
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:40 pm 
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Terry McGee wrote:
Well, I reckon that's a go-ahead, Andro.

Yes, sorry. As to Andro's first question, it is indeed permissible to ask technical questions. We encourage it. :)

The "Another forum?" aspect hit me in the head... :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Flutemaking forum
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:27 pm 
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How difficult would it be to create a dedicated sub-forum that is just for instrument making (just flutes, pipes and whistles perhaps)? I ended up doing that for the forum I ran (the former Flute Portal) when user interest showed it would be welcome. It has the advantage of not cluttering up the usual discussion threads with technical subjects that not all users take an interest in, and it would be easy to search through for an aspiring maker who wants technical info. Likely there would be fewer posts in general so easy reading. As Nanohedron says, a sticky has the disadvantage of accumulating so much that it becomes a hodge-podge. On the Flute Portal (and the original site bears no resemblance to the current Flute Portal which is barely functional and under new management) I added a making section to each different flute section (i.e. whistle making, flute making, etc.). This might be too spread out, however. Might make more sense to have all making stuff under one roof simply because there is a lot of cross-over interest and the tools and skills apply to all.

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 Post subject: Re: Flutemaking forum
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:46 pm 
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Geoffrey Ellis wrote:
How difficult would it be to create a dedicated sub-forum that is just for instrument making (just flutes, pipes and whistles perhaps)?

Not difficult at all. It's just that C&F went thru a period of adding special interest forum upon special interest forum until we had a bunch no one seemed interested in; in time we decided to rein it back and simplify (we've retained a couple for nostalgia's sake). As you might imagine, after such a cleanup the idea of a new forum would have to be compelling indeed for us to consider it. But I'm more inclined to be sympathetic to the idea of a consolidated, general instrument-making forum. Any reason not to include strings, drums or reedmaking, etc.?

Anyway, let's talk about it some more. Run it up the flagpole, as they say, and see who salutes.

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 Post subject: Re: Flutemaking forum
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:45 pm 
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Having just returned to the Yahoo group as a lurker seeking specific information, two things struck me:

There may be a point in the not so distant future that Yahoo stops supporting "groups" and all this wealth of information just goes away. We saw inklings of this with Photobucket last year.

The Yahoo search interface is atrocious. Finding information on say building a flute tuning slide was difficult.

I administer another popular forum on a similar platform to Chiff (SMF), and our benefactor (the one who pays the bills and had the initial vision to build and sustain the community) has gotten ill and withdrawn from operations over the past three years.

We are fortunate that his son has stepped in and is more or less moving ahead, as he can, and has maintained the spirit of the forum. Ongoing costs are not trivial but the initial vision was to keep the forum free.

Yahoo us just a big faceless corporation and again this valuable archive could just go away at any time.

Speculating, but some sort of non-profit type foundation perhaps supported by donations could be useful in preserving this valuable forum information. I'm afraid a lot is going to disappear in the next few years if owners/ administrators don't take this on, and as industry consolidates to much less information rich commercial monoliths like Facebook.


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 Post subject: Re: Flutemaking forum
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:48 pm 
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And I would be interested to hear how Chiff is planning for a day where they might conceivably lose operational dollar support. Any plans for preservation of knowledge?


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