It is currently Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:13 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
 
 Post subject: Re: Mike Grinter RIP
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:09 am
Posts: 312
Location: France
Nice one Terry, nice one rama.

_________________
Thalatta


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mike Grinter RIP
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:00 pm
Posts: 1390
Location: salem, ma.
Terry McGee wrote:

....but I hope the love we pour into our instruments is as much as is evident in the making of this one.

So, as I said, it cuts both ways. We flute-makers salute you all for making our lives possible. Thank you.

Thank you Terry


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mike Grinter RIP
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:50 pm
Posts: 290
Like many here, I am greatly saddened to hear of Michael Grinter's passing. I have heard wonderful things about Michael's flutes, and although I have never played one myself, I would very much like to. I have had the opportunity to play one of his recorders, I believe an Alto Denner model, and it was by far the best recorder I have ever played.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mike Grinter RIP
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 6:00 pm
Posts: 16689
The instruments he made will be his monument.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mike Grinter RIP
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 12:27 pm
Posts: 1325
Location: Kingston WA
I have friends all around who knew him who are finding out about this through me.

Am curious what his recent prices were for his flutes. I know it was a 3 year wait. Also, what was his output?

Is there anyone nearby who will carry on his legacy, or at least preserve his data, tooling etc. or will it simply be sold or discarded? Apprentices? Family involvement?

I wonder about such issues for myself, and a number of makers I know both still around and not. My heart health is good but a few years ago it was not so good and was in the congestive heart failure range. Lisinopril and Carvedilol and other things has worked to totally reverse that and something else will eventually do me in. Hopefully a Wing Suit accident in my late 90s. I will simply forget to pack the parachute as I fly down some steep mountainside avalanche chute. The GoPro Cameras will catch the whole thing including the crash landing at 1200 FPS and so everyone will be able to see my demise and dismemberment in slow-mo gory detail.

One never knows when the Good Lord's going to Call, so we keep rolling our Dice - taking money from others and promising to make good on it. I could die in a car crash this afternoon on my way to get a Christmas Tree and go to the pharmacy. Or in 35 years being an elderly dare devil. Most likely it will be from boredom.

I had one friend who was in denial of the fact that he was dying of liver and colon cancer until the last few months before. Meanwhile he was still taking 100% deposits for some of the stringed instruments he made, and passed away with several dozens or hundreds of such prepaid orders that had never ever been started and had no chance of finishing. It was a huge mess. His son who helped him occasionally felt responsible for this mess and many of us basically told him that it was his late dad's problem, not his and that for his dad's clients they should have simply done more due diligence, as my friend's condition was not exactly unknown.

3 years was about as long as my waiting list ever got. I now try to keep it under 6 months. If I don't make it past sundown in a few hours due to a meteor crashing into me, I am only leaving about 17 people in the lurch. I might simply stop taking any deposits soon so that nobody is stuck holding a bag without a flute in it. It would also mean not having to be so dedicated to getting work out when expected. And I would sleep better perhaps.

I hope Michael's clients were told that their deposits were non-refundable in the event of order cancellation as well as other reasons such as untimely and unexpected demise. And I hope his clients are being nice about it and not putting any pressure on his wife and family by expecting these deposits and payments to be refunded.

Casey

_________________
36+ Years as a Flute Maker!
Ergonomic Flutes for Small Hands since 1986
http://www.caseyburnsflutes.com
http://www.folkflutes.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mike Grinter RIP
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:15 pm
Posts: 274
My own two cents would be that taking deposits is asking for complications. I never take any amount of advanced payment for a flute order. If the customer has to wait a few months and something changes and they no longer want the flute, then it goes into my online store. This means that if something were to happen to me at any point, I don't have anyone's money. Much easier and less stressful. I've never liked the idea of taking advanced payment for work that has yet to be done. Never saw the point.

But threads like this do remind me to give some thought to how I'd like my shop tools, wood stockpile, blueprints, etc. to be dealt with.

In the case of Michael Grinter, it would be nice to hear that someone was carrying on with his work. I've heard nothing but praise of his craftsmanship from all quarters.

_________________
Geoffrey Ellis Flutes


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mike Grinter RIP
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 6:00 pm
Posts: 7846
Location: Boston, MA.
Geoffrey Ellis wrote:

In the case of Michael Grinter, it would be nice to hear that someone was carrying on with his work. I've heard nothing but praise of his craftsmanship from all quarters.


Michael was the work, without him there is no carrying on the “work”. His particular craftsmanship is lost to us, and while another may pick up his tools, they won’t produce the same flutes, unless Michael had a long term and highly advanced “apprentice”. It’s possible, but I think Michael mostly worked alone except for sometimes having a guy rough turn and do some other non-advanced work. Even that I think may have ended some years ago.

No, I don’t think we will see any more flutes worthy of the Grinter name, unless there are some essentially completed or nearly completed flutes for those on the waiting list that might be finished by another maker in an effort to help the family.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mike Grinter RIP
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:15 pm
Posts: 274
Loren wrote:
Geoffrey Ellis wrote:

In the case of Michael Grinter, it would be nice to hear that someone was carrying on with his work. I've heard nothing but praise of his craftsmanship from all quarters.


Michael was the work, without him there is no carrying on the “work”. His particular craftsmanship is lost to us, and while another may pick up his tools, they won’t produce the same flutes, unless Michael had a long term and highly advanced “apprentice”. It’s possible, but I think Michael mostly worked alone except for sometimes having a guy rough turn and do some other non-advanced work. Even that I think may have ended some years ago.

No, I don’t think we will see any more flutes worthy of the Grinter name, unless there are some essentially completed or nearly completed flutes for those on the waiting list that might be finished by another maker in an effort to help the family.


Yes, unless he had a friend, family member or apprentice in training, the knowledge and experience has nowhere to go. It's not an easy thing to teach, in any case, since so much of the skill is intuitive and involves repetition, muscle memory, and the like. There is the notable case of Aaron Olwell learning the craft at his father's side, but I gather that such a thing is a rarity. I tried to teach some basic stuff to a friend so he could help me out and it was an eye-opener. Not successful.

_________________
Geoffrey Ellis Flutes


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mike Grinter RIP
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:12 pm
Posts: 1977
Location: Malua Bay, on the NSW Nature Coast
I'm aware of at least one Mike Grinter "apprentice" or at least co-worker for a time - Victorian (that's the place, not the period!) instrument maker Benedict Stewart. Ben makes a wide range of instruments including wooden whistles and flutes. I enjoyed a bit of time chatting with him at the last National Folk Festival in Canberra - he had whistles and a few of his own flutes on display in the Instrument Maker's space. They looked and seemed pretty good to me. Ben's woodwinds page is at:

http://benedictstewartinstruments.com/woodwind/

I've been told that Mike had a son, whom I've not met, who was described as "more tech-savvy than Mike" who was helping Mike deal with demand by introducing CNC equipment. I am not in a position to verify that (anyone?), and I don't know if the son has sufficient interest, time or knowledge to pick up where Mike left off. But it would seem to me that Mike's operation could be picked up by suitably skillful craftworker, possibly to the advantage of waiting customers and family. "Reverse-engineering" his designs would take little work when compared to the "reverse-engineering" we've all done in picking up and advancing the totally lost tradition of 19th century flute making. I imagine Mike's workshop (which I've never seen) has all the usual jigs, tools, drawings and probably even some partly-finished instruments which would make the job very straightforward. Perhaps the biggest question facing someone doing it would be to what extent should they just make the product as found, and to what extent should they permit themselves to change it to suit their own taste.

I wonder what George Rose thought of developments subsequent to his retirement from Rudall and Rose?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mike Grinter RIP
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 12:27 pm
Posts: 1325
Location: Kingston WA
Geoffrey, I appreciate what you have to say about deposits. I take a 25% deposit and state on my website that these are non-refundable. But with most doing it via PayPal or via credit cards these days, that statement is impossible to enforce. Its good to have a show of commitment from the clients. On the other hand, I can't imagine keeping more than 6 months of orders on my books or I would go crazy. Keyless flutes are relatively easy to get out quickly. Not so keyed flutes.

I am thinking of simply taking names and putting them on a non-deposited waiting list as you do after the 1st of the year, and get to the point of having an inventory. I will be postponing my Folk Flute production until late Spring possibly, except through some well-stocked retailers who I hope to direct people to, in order to get caught up and a jump ahead on these projects. I may also be taking some time off for knee replacements (how are yours doing Terry?). I consult with my knee surgeon in January. I am also writing some operas!

Regarding Michael's legacy - it would be good at least for someone knowledgeable and nearby to collect his notebooks or any other data, assuming his family is willing, and submit these data to an appropriate repository, or at least an online digital archive. I plan to do the same with my data. Future generations can study these and beginning makers especially can perhaps mine these data and get up to speed sooner. There are no trade secrets really - the data are preserved to some degree in the instruments we make.

Its true however regarding what makes a Grinter different even amongst Grinter flutes. If he was like me he would not try to make each one exactly like the other and these differences would be subtle. This would be hard to quantify without the man present.

Casey

_________________
36+ Years as a Flute Maker!
Ergonomic Flutes for Small Hands since 1986
http://www.caseyburnsflutes.com
http://www.folkflutes.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mike Grinter RIP
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:12 pm
Posts: 1977
Location: Malua Bay, on the NSW Nature Coast
Casey Burns wrote:
Geoffrey, I appreciate what you have to say about deposits. I take a 25% deposit and state on my website that these are non-refundable. But with most doing it via PayPal or via credit cards these days, that statement is impossible to enforce. Its good to have a show of commitment from the clients. On the other hand, I can't imagine keeping more than 6 months of orders on my books or I would go crazy. Keyless flutes are relatively easy to get out quickly. Not so keyed flutes.

I'm also working to keep my waiting list down. I'd got to somewhere like 3 years when I closed my books, and quietly reopened them when I was back to 6 months. I think 6 months is bearable. But it's a personal thing. Some makers are happy to have massive backlogs. Shudder!
Quote:
I may also be taking some time off for knee replacements (how are yours doing Terry?). I consult with my knee surgeon in January.

My knees are bloody marvelous. I'd reached the stage (what is it now, maybe 7 years ago?) where I could only go downstairs backwards. Then I had the operation - a bilateral knee replacement - which I would have to rate as the worst thing that's ever happened to me. But six weeks later it was bearable, three months later it was ignorable, and a year later it was forgotten. I reckon I'm up for joining Riverdance now. I just don't want to show the other dancers up....
Quote:
Regarding Michael's legacy - it would be good at least for someone knowledgeable and nearby to collect his notebooks or any other data, assuming his family is willing, and submit these data to an appropriate repository, or at least an online digital archive. I plan to do the same with my data. Future generations can study these and beginning makers especially can perhaps mine these data and get up to speed sooner. There are no trade secrets really - the data are preserved to some degree in the instruments we make.

Agreed. If it turns out no-one in or around the family are interested in following in Michael's footprints, that would be a good outcome. I will attempt to locate a family member and ask respectfully what is planned for Michael's materials. Unless someone else feels they are more appropriate than I, in which case I happily defer.

It would appear that Michael's funeral will be tomorrow. From the Age:
------------------------
GRINTER

The life of Michael Philip Grinter will be honoured and celebrated at the Atisha Centre, 25 Sandhurst Town Rd, Myers Flat (Bendigo) on FRIDAY (14/12/18) at 1.30pm.

After the ceremony, you are warmly invited to join us for refreshments, stories and music.

Private cremation.

In lieu of flowers, please consider a donation to Michael's beloved Atisha Centre. Giving bowls will be available on the day.

NATURAL GRACE
Holistic Funeral Directors
1300 008 037
---------------------
The Atisha Centre describes itself as: a Tibetan Buddhist meditation centre, providing opportunities for study and practice of a spiritual path, where people can develop their natural wisdom and compassion.

There might be much about Michael we are not familiar with.
Quote:
Its true however regarding what makes a Grinter different even amongst Grinter flutes. If he was like me he would not try to make each one exactly like the other and these differences would be subtle. This would be hard to quantify without the man present.

But having Michael present is not an option. We must do the best we can, given the circumstances. There is probably no immediate urgency, but let us try to put together some sort of story of development as best we can. Grinter owners, I suspect you own the best evidence we have available to us.

Now all of this leads me to one of my favourite rants, and I will no longer be put off. I have mentioned often in these pages that we are failing spectacularly to gather the history of the modern history of the Irish flute, and Michael's unexpected death provides all the evidence I need. We have lost the chance for personal input from a key player. Let us act before we lose more. Oooh, I'm not feeling well....

(Ignore that appalling piece-to-camera, I'm actually feeling terrific!)

I will put some thought into a format suitable for capturing what we can and get back to you all under a new topic heading. Unless somebody beats me, in which case I'll happily join in. What are the important points we'd want to capture about each maker?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mike Grinter RIP
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:00 pm
Posts: 1390
Location: salem, ma.
Terry McGee wrote:

We must do the best we can, given the circumstances. There is probably no immediate urgency, but let us try to put together some sort of story of development as best we can. Grinter owners, I suspect you own the best evidence we have available to us.


What type of info are you looking for?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mike Grinter RIP
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:12 pm
Posts: 1977
Location: Malua Bay, on the NSW Nature Coast
I don't really know, rama, but I think it would tease itself out. For example, someone in a recent posting commented that they thought Michael started making flutes based on one 19th century original, but more recently switched to another, or maybe others. (I don't even know if he made more than one model of flute.) But we should be able to determine that by say inviting an owner of an early Grinter to compare their flute with the owner of a recent Grinter. We could then invite other Grinter owners to comment do their instruments fall into group early, group late or elsewhere. Further discussion would unearth how many individual iterations we're dealing with.

I wonder if there is someone out there who would feel motivated to be Mike's Earthly Representative, to take responsibility for answering some of these questions. Plenty of support available.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mike Grinter RIP
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:00 pm
Posts: 1390
Location: salem, ma.
Kevin Crawford worked closely with Mike over the years, he could be a great resource.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mike Grinter RIP
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:18 pm
Posts: 1
rama wrote:
Kevin Crawford worked closely with Mike over the years, he could be a great resource.


I visited Michael in his workshop during the October School Holidays. I spent an hour with him, and left playing better than I hadn't ever played before. Playing his instrument was the only time I've ever played a flute I liked better than my own, and his flute taught me to play my own better.

On the day I visited, he was speaking with Kevin Crawford about new instruments, including a move away from blackwood to mopane (half the instruments in progress were in mopane).

Alas, he told me it has been years since Ben went out on his own (I meet Ben and tried one of his flutes at the Folk Festival in Canberra a couple of years ago). He told me he'd probably never take on a worker again because of the long process of training one).

When I ordered a few weeks ago, the waiting list was 15-18 months, and the price was unbelievably reasonable for the quality.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.161s | 11 Queries | GZIP : On ]
(dh)