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Recognising ebonite?
http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=107392
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Author:  keithsandra [ Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Recognising ebonite?

I have a beautifully mellow sounding D flute in what I thought was Delrin. But apart from this alluring sound it is always warmer than my other delrin flutes that are stored
in exactly the same way between playing, even when it
and other delrins are left out on my desk below a hygrometer reading over 70 with temperatures of about
50c. The others take a lot of warming up. I've checked for
grain on the body and ends but there isn't any. It looks like delrin. Wall thickness is the same as my delrin M&E, which this flute resembles in many ways but Michael Cronnolly denies it's one of his (even one of his earlier models I presume). So, could it be ebonite?

Any ideas?

Best wishes, Keith.

Author:  jiminos [ Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recognising ebonite?

Could it be a Desi Seery?

Author:  keithsandra [ Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recognising ebonite?

Jiminos, what are the elements that identify a Seery? My flute has "golden" plastic sticky ribbon "rings". The fully lining tuning slide is stainless steel, and has to be out about threequarters of an inch or so to maximise tuning when you start playing. The tenons seem short and two are a bit loose, but no problem - was that a Seery thing? It seems lighter than my keyless M&E. It feels good to hold. And as I said, the sound is attractively mellow, though volume isn't
Sessions style, and low D is nothing compared to my braying Tipple and Shannon. Is this of any help in identifying it?

Best wishes, Keith.

Author:  jim stone [ Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recognising ebonite?

Three thoughts. Ebonite is said to have a better sound than delrin. So its exceptional
sound provides some weak support for its being ebonite. Second, ebonite breaks if
dropped, where delrin doesn't. Wouldn't advise this test. Third, you can wait fifty
years and see if it changes color, e.g. turns green. That's all I can think of.

Author:  keithsandra [ Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recognising ebonite?

It belonged to someone's aged father so could be nearing its green age. I'll watch out for any changes!

Best, Keith.

Author:  an seanduine [ Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recognising ebonite?

Ebonite machines differently from delrin. A little fine sand paper applied to an out of the way location should tell the tale. The inside of the headjoint behind the crown should do. Ebonite should produce a fine dust unlike delrin. It may faintly smell sulphurous.
My tuppence.
Bob

Author:  keithsandra [ Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recognising ebonite?

Well look at that! Bob, I just took some 1500 grit wet and dry paper to the underneath of the stopper crown as you suggested, using the paper dry, and lo and behold - it produced a very fine light coloured dust smelling faintly of burned match. I did this three times with a fresh part of the paper each time and got the same result. I even took the sheet from which my test strip of the paper was taken and shoved my nose into it to check if it's the unused sandpaper that smells like a burnt match - it doesn't.

So if someone can confirm that ebonite is warmer than Delrin, I think we have a useful indication this flute is indeed made of ebonite.

So thanks, Bob.

All other ideas welcome too ...

PS. This flute is small holed, nearly round embouchure, (10mm x 11mm) and tapered, so I don't think it's a Seery as I understand Seery's were Pratten based honkers.

Best wishes, Keith.

Author:  Jayhawk [ Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recognising ebonite?

I love ebonite...I will be curious to see if you discover the maker.

Please keep us posted Keith!

Eric

Author:  keithsandra [ Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recognising ebonite?

Will do Jayhawk. I suspect it's a copy of an early M&E. I used to have the model number of the Rudall and Rose M&E based theirs on. If I find it I'll see if it leads me to the original RnR measurements to compare.

Best, Keith.

Author:  paddler [ Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recognising ebonite?

Quote:
So if someone can confirm that ebonite is warmer than Delrin, I think we have a useful indication this flute is indeed made of ebonite.

I can confirm this. I recently tested some prototype ebonite flutes for Geoffrey Ellis. Part of my feedback to him was that I thought the ebonite felt pleasantly warmer to the hand and lip than delrin. It also sounded better, which surprised me, but there was no denying the feeling of resonance.

I found this thermal conductivity table that shows acetal (delrin) with a conductivity rate of .23 and ebonite with a rate of .17, which is the same as many types of wood. The higher the number the colder the material will feel as it means that it conducts heat away from your lip and hands at a faster rate.

Author:  keithsandra [ Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recognising ebonite?

Bingo!

Well done Paddler. And a big Thank You. What a cornucopea of information
is Chiff and Fipple.

So, a flute that was sold to me in good faith as an M&E which Master flutemaker Connolly says isn't but which I kept anyway because it was inexpensive, and sounds and feels great, is in fact a more valuable ebonite orphan. Was it left on some church steps unregistered and unknown, or does someone know its parentage?

Best wishes, Keith.

Author:  jemtheflute [ Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recognising ebonite?

Photos?

Author:  keithsandra [ Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recognising ebonite?

IMG_20181023_085929.jpg

Hope this is downloadable. If not can send you the photo by your email.

Regards,

Keith.

Author:  jemtheflute [ Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recognising ebonite?

keithsandra wrote:
IMG_20181023_085929.jpg

Hope this is downloadable. If not can send you the photo by your email.

Regards,

Keith.

No joy with that, sorry, Keith. Send it to me on FB Messenger if you like - easier.

Author:  keithsandra [ Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recognising ebonite?

Sorry Jem, I'm not on FB.

Tried sending to the yahoo email given on this forum but had it sent back, denied ...

Maybe I can do something else. Will look into it.

Regards,

Keith.

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