It is currently Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:13 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
Posts: 6771
Location: N.E. Wales, G.B.
Odd. Try e-mail again. Or get it hosted and post to display here the old way....

_________________
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

My YouTube channel
Low Bb flute: Xmas Eve & The Providence (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:55 pm
Posts: 424
Location: BC., Canada
Jem:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/plnedbwzgi6t8 ... e.jpg?dl=0

Hope this works.

Regards,

Keith.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
Posts: 6771
Location: N.E. Wales, G.B.
e-mail received and Dropbox viewed too. :-)

I'm afraid I'm not really any the wiser, though, as the shot is too far away and a bit fuzzy of focus, so I can't really see the material well even zooming in. From what I *can* see it does look mote like Ebonite than Delrin, but I can't be sure.

_________________
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

My YouTube channel
Low Bb flute: Xmas Eve & The Providence (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:55 pm
Posts: 424
Location: BC., Canada
Thank you Jem. I'll see if I can get a better shot with my tablet, perhaps edit for better focus too.

In the meantime, any idea who might have made the flute?

Kind regards,

Keith.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
Posts: 6771
Location: N.E. Wales, G.B.
It's a bit weird looking, especially the embouchure hole so far down-tube on the head. A bit M&E reminiscent, but not clearly one. Dunno, sorry.

_________________
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

My YouTube channel
Low Bb flute: Xmas Eve & The Providence (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:55 pm
Posts: 424
Location: BC., Canada
Your opinion, Jem, coupled with the comparitively very large number and type of flutes that have gone through your hands, and your studies of various flute cultures, plus the flute's materials and variation from the norm in hole placings, nearly round but large embouchure hole, short tenons, is an indication to me this flute is probably a 1950's experiment, a worked over one-off copy based on Rudall and Rose measurements taken from an extant RnR and/or a museum or private Rudall and Rose collection. This opinion is more intuition than empirical fact though. Let's hope someone really knows who made it. I love it, orphan or not.

Best wishes and thanks again.

Keith.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 3665
Location: Lawrence, KS
I will host a pic. Email me at dflute(at)Outlook com. Replace the (at) with @ and you are good to go.

Eric


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:47 pm
Posts: 24
Location: SE Ohio
I'm the guy who sold the flute to Keith. I am the original owner. The flute belonged to me rather than my father - I also had an Olwell keyless for sale that did belong to my father advertised at the same time as my "M&E," so that's probably where that detail came from.

It's been a long time, so I will reconstruct this as best I can. I bought the flute new at least 20 years ago, maybe even longer, in response to someone posting a rave review about a brand new flute maker who was building "polymer" flutes that were inexpensive but sounded good. That review probably was published on the old woodenflutes listserv or the irtrad-l listserv, because web forums barely existed back then, if at all. The maker's website was only a couple of pages with the unmistakable 'mom and pop' design feel of that era. The site played up the rustic Irish origins of the maker and the environmental and durability benefits of polymer. It also talked about the maker's wife being involved in the business, too. If I remember correctly, it said she made the carrying cases.There was an option to order the flute "plain" or with non-functional decorative "rings." The maker was up front with me about the fact that those rings were just stickers. I remember it being hard to order the flute, mostly because whoever built the website probably had never made a website before, so the maker's contact info was very hard to find.

I will acknowledge that my memory may be faulty, but I thought M&E was the brand. Whoever made it, I assume the flute I bought was made very early in their manufacturing career, not only because of how quirky the website was but also because the flute itself had telltale signs of someone that was still learning how to handle machine tools - marks in the foot joint's bore opposite the tone holes where the drill bit overshot, very sharp edges to tone holes, etc.

That's all I can remember about the flute.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:47 pm
Posts: 24
Location: SE Ohio
OMG, the ITRTAD-L listserv actually exists still, and even better, they have searchable archives that go all the way back to 1992!

You can find a thread from 1997 that mentions this very flute by following these steps. The message from "Sean O'Malley" in those search results is the late 90s version of myself talking about the M&E flute that Keith now owns:

1. Go to https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=IRTRAD-L
2. Click the Advanced Search link
3. Search for the keyword "Cronnolly"
4. Choose Sort By: "Date/Time (Chronologically)"


Last edited by ohioboater on Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:55 pm
Posts: 424
Location: BC., Canada
Jayhawk: Thanks, here's the Dropbox pic address again, but I'll email the pic to you too:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/plnedbwzgi6t8 ... e.jpg?dl=0

Best, Keith.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 3834
Location: Los Angeles
Are the tenons thread wrapped, corked, or bare?

It does look reminiscent of an older M&E, but I don't think those had a LH/RH split until his R&R model.

or a Ray Sloan (although the Sloan had a flared barrel AFAIK).

_________________
International Traditional Music Society, Inc.
A non-profit 501c3 charity/educational public benefit corporation
Wooden Flute Obsession CDs (3 volumes, 6 discs, 7 hours, 120 players/tracks)
http://www.worldtrad.org


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:55 pm
Posts: 424
Location: BC., Canada
Kkrell: The tenons are bare.

Best wishes,

Keith.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 3834
Location: Los Angeles
keithsandra wrote:
Kkrell: The tenons are bare.

Best wishes,

Keith.


Still looks like an old M&E to me - here's one from about 2002 or earlier off an old site ( http://www.angelfire.com/nf/weston/mande.html ). Except for the location of the embouchure hole, seems the closest match I've been able to find. Note where the split is in relation the LH & RH toneholes, and their size.

Image

_________________
International Traditional Music Society, Inc.
A non-profit 501c3 charity/educational public benefit corporation
Wooden Flute Obsession CDs (3 volumes, 6 discs, 7 hours, 120 players/tracks)
http://www.worldtrad.org


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 3665
Location: Lawrence, KS
Here is a pic from Keith...looks just like an old M&E to me, and Michael used PVC (special grade of the stuff) which when sanded would appear more like ebonite than delrin).

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:55 pm
Posts: 424
Location: BC., Canada
KKrell and Jayhawk: Those photos in Krell's attached old review show a flute identical to the photo I took of mine that Jayhawk kindly posted below your post. Just compare them! Even the tenons are identically short in both photos. This looks more and more like an early M&E.

But Jayhawk, if its Delrin how does that explain the distinctly mellower ebonite tone compared to my newer Delrin M&E RnR? And the warmth of the material of this orphan? I think this mystery flute is a very early ebonite M&E and was sold to the person I bought it from as such.

Best wishes,

Keith.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.108s | 11 Queries | GZIP : On ]
(dh)