It is currently Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:48 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 
 Post subject: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:55 pm
Posts: 413
Location: BC., Canada
I have a beautifully mellow sounding D flute in what I thought was Delrin. But apart from this alluring sound it is always warmer than my other delrin flutes that are stored
in exactly the same way between playing, even when it
and other delrins are left out on my desk below a hygrometer reading over 70 with temperatures of about
50c. The others take a lot of warming up. I've checked for
grain on the body and ends but there isn't any. It looks like delrin. Wall thickness is the same as my delrin M&E, which this flute resembles in many ways but Michael Cronnolly denies it's one of his (even one of his earlier models I presume). So, could it be ebonite?

Any ideas?

Best wishes, Keith.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:09 am
Posts: 507
Location: Pacific Coast of Washington State
Could it be a Desi Seery?

_________________
Jim

the truth is not lost. do not search for it.
accept it.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:55 pm
Posts: 413
Location: BC., Canada
Jiminos, what are the elements that identify a Seery? My flute has "golden" plastic sticky ribbon "rings". The fully lining tuning slide is stainless steel, and has to be out about threequarters of an inch or so to maximise tuning when you start playing. The tenons seem short and two are a bit loose, but no problem - was that a Seery thing? It seems lighter than my keyless M&E. It feels good to hold. And as I said, the sound is attractively mellow, though volume isn't
Sessions style, and low D is nothing compared to my braying Tipple and Shannon. Is this of any help in identifying it?

Best wishes, Keith.


Last edited by keithsandra on Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 6:00 pm
Posts: 16634
Three thoughts. Ebonite is said to have a better sound than delrin. So its exceptional
sound provides some weak support for its being ebonite. Second, ebonite breaks if
dropped, where delrin doesn't. Wouldn't advise this test. Third, you can wait fifty
years and see if it changes color, e.g. turns green. That's all I can think of.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:55 pm
Posts: 413
Location: BC., Canada
It belonged to someone's aged father so could be nearing its green age. I'll watch out for any changes!

Best, Keith.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:06 pm
Posts: 1388
Location: just outside Xanadu
Ebonite machines differently from delrin. A little fine sand paper applied to an out of the way location should tell the tale. The inside of the headjoint behind the crown should do. Ebonite should produce a fine dust unlike delrin. It may faintly smell sulphurous.
My tuppence.
Bob

_________________
Not everything you can count, counts. And not everything that counts, can be counted

The Expert's Mind has few possibilities.
The Beginner's mind has endless possibilities.
Shunryu Suzuki, Roshi


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:55 pm
Posts: 413
Location: BC., Canada
Well look at that! Bob, I just took some 1500 grit wet and dry paper to the underneath of the stopper crown as you suggested, using the paper dry, and lo and behold - it produced a very fine light coloured dust smelling faintly of burned match. I did this three times with a fresh part of the paper each time and got the same result. I even took the sheet from which my test strip of the paper was taken and shoved my nose into it to check if it's the unused sandpaper that smells like a burnt match - it doesn't.

So if someone can confirm that ebonite is warmer than Delrin, I think we have a useful indication this flute is indeed made of ebonite.

So thanks, Bob.

All other ideas welcome too ...

PS. This flute is small holed, nearly round embouchure, (10mm x 11mm) and tapered, so I don't think it's a Seery as I understand Seery's were Pratten based honkers.

Best wishes, Keith.


Last edited by keithsandra on Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 3661
Location: Lawrence, KS
I love ebonite...I will be curious to see if you discover the maker.

Please keep us posted Keith!

Eric


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:55 pm
Posts: 413
Location: BC., Canada
Will do Jayhawk. I suspect it's a copy of an early M&E. I used to have the model number of the Rudall and Rose M&E based theirs on. If I find it I'll see if it leads me to the original RnR measurements to compare.

Best, Keith.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 368
Location: Hood River, Oregon, USA
Quote:
So if someone can confirm that ebonite is warmer than Delrin, I think we have a useful indication this flute is indeed made of ebonite.

I can confirm this. I recently tested some prototype ebonite flutes for Geoffrey Ellis. Part of my feedback to him was that I thought the ebonite felt pleasantly warmer to the hand and lip than delrin. It also sounded better, which surprised me, but there was no denying the feeling of resonance.

I found this thermal conductivity table that shows acetal (delrin) with a conductivity rate of .23 and ebonite with a rate of .17, which is the same as many types of wood. The higher the number the colder the material will feel as it means that it conducts heat away from your lip and hands at a faster rate.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:55 pm
Posts: 413
Location: BC., Canada
Bingo!

Well done Paddler. And a big Thank You. What a cornucopea of information
is Chiff and Fipple.

So, a flute that was sold to me in good faith as an M&E which Master flutemaker Connolly says isn't but which I kept anyway because it was inexpensive, and sounds and feels great, is in fact a more valuable ebonite orphan. Was it left on some church steps unregistered and unknown, or does someone know its parentage?

Best wishes, Keith.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
Posts: 6762
Location: N.E. Wales, G.B.
Photos?

_________________
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

My YouTube channel
Low Bb flute: Xmas Eve & The Providence (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:55 pm
Posts: 413
Location: BC., Canada
IMG_20181023_085929.jpg

Hope this is downloadable. If not can send you the photo by your email.

Regards,

Keith.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
Posts: 6762
Location: N.E. Wales, G.B.
keithsandra wrote:
IMG_20181023_085929.jpg

Hope this is downloadable. If not can send you the photo by your email.

Regards,

Keith.

No joy with that, sorry, Keith. Send it to me on FB Messenger if you like - easier.

_________________
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

My YouTube channel
Low Bb flute: Xmas Eve & The Providence (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recognising ebonite?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:55 pm
Posts: 413
Location: BC., Canada
Sorry Jem, I'm not on FB.

Tried sending to the yahoo email given on this forum but had it sent back, denied ...

Maybe I can do something else. Will look into it.

Regards,

Keith.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Crawforde and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.185s | 12 Queries | GZIP : On ]
(dh)