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 Post subject: Fun Read
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:34 pm 
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Master's Thesis by Kara Lockridge "Where can I get a flute like that?"

Best wishes.

Steve

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"[Some flutists] place the flute between the upper lip and the nose, blowing the instrument from below. This position does not prevent good playing, but it does not look graceful."
~ Antoine Mahaut, 1759 in a tutor for playing the transverse flute ~


Last edited by Steve Bliven on Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fun Read
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:48 pm 
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Steve Bliven wrote:
Master's Thesis by Kara Lockridge "Where can I get a flute like that?"

Best wishes.

Steve

Fixed the link (missing a leading 'h' in the URL)

You can also download the entire digitized .PDF from Google, from a button on the page.
274 pages, 2.35 MB

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Last edited by kkrell on Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fun Read
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:56 pm 
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kkrell wrote:
Fixed the link (missing a leading 'h' in the URL)

Thanks. Fixed in the original message also.

Best wishes.

Steve

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"[Some flutists] place the flute between the upper lip and the nose, blowing the instrument from below. This position does not prevent good playing, but it does not look graceful."
~ Antoine Mahaut, 1759 in a tutor for playing the transverse flute ~


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 Post subject: Re: Fun Read
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:21 am 
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Thanks Steve. Interesting to read about the difficulty experienced in London of obtaining a good instrument to play on during the 60's and 70's as there were no modern flute makers prior to the late 70's- early 80's. According to John Skelton there were not that many flute players in London, less than ten at that time, so why was this a problem? Was this dearth of good flutes because Paul Davis was buying up 19th century from estate sales, auctions, and flea markets all over England? I'd have thought that Paul would be interested in selling to the would-be flute players at that time? Or was it because of the "underground" nature of the second hand flute commerce, you had to know the right people to buy one, if you couldn't be bothered yourself to frequent auctions, markets etc.? I mean the flutes were there, unplayed in peoples homes, as they still turn up today

After reading Kara's thesis I like the fact that as regards 19th century English flutes, good unspoilt examples of, for example, Rudall & Rose flutes complete with their keys, blocks, original bores, perhaps with a just head joint or barrel crack that is repairable, still turn up, and can be bought for a very reasonable price these last 5-6 years. I have three fine Rudall flutes that cost between £950-£1500 to buy. All three must have lain unplayed for decades. A few days ago a fine Rudall & Rose sold for £300 in London. On E-bay a nice Patent head Rudall & Rose is on offer for £2500. Both these flutes also look to have been unplayed for many years still with the original threads on the tenons


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 Post subject: Re: Fun Read
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:33 pm 
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Quote:
Thanks Steve. Interesting to read about the difficulty experienced in London of obtaining a good instrument to play on during the 60's and 70's as there were no modern flute makers prior to the late 70's- early 80's. According to John Skelton there were not that many flute players in London, less than ten at that time, so why was this a problem? Was this dearth of good flutes because Paul Davis was buying up 19th century from estate sales, auctions, and flea markets all over England? I'd have thought that Paul would be interested in selling to the would-be flute players at that time? Or was it because of the "underground" nature of the second hand flute commerce, you had to know the right people to buy one, if you couldn't be bothered yourself to frequent auctions, markets etc.? I mean the flutes were there, unplayed in peoples homes, as they still turn up today

Prior to the Internet, with forums like this one, and services like eBay and craigslist, I suspect it was very difficult for potential buyers and sellers to connect with each other. Your chances of happening across a decent flute in an antique shop were probably slim to none, and the overhead, in terms of time and effort, involved in participating in auctions was much higher than it is today. I suspect most people just didn't know how to go about finding a decent flute, even though there were antiques spread across the country.


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 Post subject: Re: Fun Read
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:57 pm 
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paddler wrote:
Prior to the Internet, with forums like this one, and services like eBay and craigslist, I suspect it was very difficult for potential buyers and sellers to connect with each other. Your chances of happening across a decent flute in an antique shop were probably slim to none, and the overhead, in terms of time and effort, involved in participating in auctions was much higher than it is today. I suspect most people just didn't know how to go about finding a decent flute, even though there were antiques spread across the country.

I can personally attest to this. I wanted to play trad flute for many years, long before I ever got started, but prior to the internet I had no one to consult, and only knew that my best bet was to find one in antique shops, or second-hand stores if I was lucky. And let me tell you, that was a looooong search indeed. I vaguely knew they were usually of black-colored wood with silvery keys, but that was it. When I did finally find one, I had no concept of systems and makers as considerations, so I didn't really know what I was looking at in any informed way, except that even to my untrained eye it was in far too dismal a state for me to take the plunge. Basically, they wanted about $180 for what was obviously firewood. I still kept up the search, but given how long it took me to find even a disappointment, I'd really lost hope over antique stores at that point, and they seemed like my only chance.

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 Post subject: Re: Fun Read
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:19 pm 
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When I first connected with the Uilleann Piping community in 1982-83 I also saw one of the first 'modern' conic flutes being made in the 'States by Michael Copeland. About the same time I found a 'modern' flute by a man named Minkler. I had known of pin mounted wooden conic flutes through my grandfather from about the time I took up the Boehm Flute, around age 9 or ten.

Bob

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 Post subject: Re: Fun Read
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:32 am 
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You're right Paddler the internet has indeed enabled global access to niche instruments. I visited Dave Williams' workshop in Newark, Notts. in 1979 to pick up my pipes and and ordered a 4-key Rudall & Rose replica. I didn't play the flute, but thought at the time it could be good to have in case of reed problems with the pipes. All my other flutes have been purchased later via the internet. John Skelton told Kara that there were just a handful of flute players in London during there '70's playing Irish trad. I think it's strange Paul Davis seemed to be the only one scouting auctions, flea markets and antique shops in the London area. Was Patsy Maloney in Birmingham doing the same thing in Northern England?


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 Post subject: Re: Fun Read
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:33 am 
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Ah, just noticed Kara's thesis was written 14 years ago. Still an interesting read though


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 Post subject: Re: Fun Read
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:39 am 
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Doesn't really change the historical perspective and 14 years ago there was both an internet and Chiff and Fipple to dominate it....

Best wishes.

Steve

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"[Some flutists] place the flute between the upper lip and the nose, blowing the instrument from below. This position does not prevent good playing, but it does not look graceful."
~ Antoine Mahaut, 1759 in a tutor for playing the transverse flute ~


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 Post subject: Re: Fun Read
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:43 am 
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And I just noticed that Paddler had introduced this same topic a year or so ago. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=105519

And to quote Paddler at the time, "This may be old news, but I hadn't seen it before. I found it an interesting read ... "

Steve

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"[Some flutists] place the flute between the upper lip and the nose, blowing the instrument from below. This position does not prevent good playing, but it does not look graceful."
~ Antoine Mahaut, 1759 in a tutor for playing the transverse flute ~


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