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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:18 am 
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/323387910770

I have listed my unkeyed Noy boxwood flute for auction on Ebay at the above address. I am the one selling a whole flute :lol: which I mention because someone else has listed a separate head.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:51 am 
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Also, that other headjoint is for a Boehm flute, with appropriate taper and the typical Boehm raised lip plate.

Have you any comment on Peter Noy's embouchure cut as shown compared to antique ovals?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:29 am 
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kkrell wrote:
Also, that other headjoint is for a Boehm flute, with appropriate taper and the typical Boehm raised lip plate.

Have you any comment on Peter Noy's embouchure cut as shown compared to antique ovals?


I was playing in a session in Seattle last week where there was a boxwood Noy flute, with a little black wood band in the front part of the embouchure. I play a Wilkes Rudall with a small embouchure, and I did find playing the Noy embouchure quite easy, it was an unlined head, and to me it felt a bit like playing a baroque flute, definitely not as powerful as the Wilkes, but then again I could be heard in the session without any trouble (the Noy might be as powerful as the Wilkes with some practice).


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:52 am 
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A lovely instrument. Maybe a lottery ticket will come through...

I've had a Noy (not that fancy, however) and found the embouchure very comfortable, and powerful when desired. Mine didn't have the blowing edge that he puts into some flutes to both protect the embouchure hole and provide a clear focal point for playing. Mr. Noy's flutes don't seem to be that well known outside the Pacific Northwest but, from my limited experience, he should be.

Best wishes.

Steve

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:22 am 
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More reviews from people who have played these flutes
would be welcome.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:51 pm 
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I took a picture showing a Wilkes embouchure for R & R #3415, the Noy, and a Copley delrin. Funny, I never realized until I looked at this picture how. misshapen the Copley looks because it has always been a very easy player. Anyway, I would appreciate advice as to how to link it for anyone interested in comparing embouchures.
BTW, I did not choose the X cut blind. Peter sent me 3 heads with a sample flute. The X was actually the middle one and the one I preferred. That said, I will be the first to admit most of the members of this forum are far better players than I will ever be. This is why I struggle with the Wilkes. But it is what it is and I will be glad to share my side by side picture if someone is kind enough to tell me what dropbox or whatever they use. Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:38 am 
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What a gorgeous flute!
I hope I do not step on any toes publishing this informal clip, probably done on a phone, that shows what this flute in the right hands is capable of.

I know this head has the X cut embouchure since Leo is the one that worked with Peter on developing it. It was even called the X model because Peter would come up with a change and Leo would say it needs "X" to make it better. It is more squared off like a modern cut but bigger. If you were to contact Peter I am sure he would have a better description. It was being developed after I had my Noy flute or I would have gotten the X model. It is big but easy to fill.

https://vimeo.com/71396484


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:55 am 
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I have had two Noys. One was keyless and one 5-keyed and both were beautiful players with plenty of volume. I've played Boehm flute for many years so really liked the larger embouchure hole and purer tone of those flutes. Don't know if I really needed the larger hole, though. Boehm flute should be played with a well-focused air stream and even a very fine one can sound quiet and breathy without that (and good diaphragm support). I don't claim to know all of the physics of sound, though. The only reason I sold either Noy was because of job loss. Now I am working and saving for another.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:17 am 
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libraryman wrote:
BTW, I did not choose the X cut blind. Peter sent me 3 heads with a sample flute.


I also have a Noy boxwood, also one with a lot of whistles and bells. I chose pounded gold rings rather than horn. He also sent me three heads for a trial. I found the x-cut easy to play and incredibly powerful. It almost felt like playing a modern flute. I also found it facilitated the third octave. I almost went for it, but thought the Rudall cut was more flexible and traditional sounding. My wife, as listener, felt even more strongly about that. It all comes down to what you're looking for. I think I would have been happy with the x-cut, but don't regret my decision to go with a traditional cut. If you're after volume, the x-cut will do well by you.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:44 pm 
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Thanks for the kind comments and the great video of Leo playing his Noy. The ones I have played were all great and I am not really good enough to say this embouchure is definitely better than that. I would probably have picked the X cut in most two week trials, but maybe not always. Gold rings sound really sharp, would like to see a picture of it. $1600 starting point is high for an unkeyed non-Olwell flute and I have no idea if someone will jump in the last day even if that is quite a bit below what I paid. Will just wait and see. Usually whatever happens is for the best.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:13 am 
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I see the listing has ended and I certainly hope you got the full price. It had a lot of extras and I feel it was well worth the asking price.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:19 am 
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kmag wrote:
I see the listing has ended and I certainly hope you got the full price. It had a lot of extras and I feel it was well worth the asking price.

There were no bids, so it did not sell from that listing.

Peter Noy is a fine flutemaker, but not as well known as others. His flutes used to get talked about quite a lot on C&F years ago, and there's quite a bit of craftsmanship there, particularly on his keywork. But other names have been more on the tip of the tongue lately. There are a lot of perfectly suitable wooden keyless flutes running from $700-1100 new or used, and Delrin ones even considerably lower, and I'd say we're still in a decline regarding prices, except for the most desirable instruments.

I think his flutes have more appeal to Boehm players who might double on ethnic flutes. Similar market to Windward Flutes, and that embouchure cut could market well to them.

I had some interest in a boxwood flute myself, but I'd need to free up funds by selling my Ewen McDougall silver Boehm first. Ewen (RIP) was a long-time Rudall Carte & Co. employee & a co-founder of the Flutemakers Guild of London with 50 years experience on wooden & silver flutes. I plan to have it checked out by a local professional flute repair person for any adjustments & either offer for sale or consign. Might trade, if possible, for a really good handmade guitar.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:55 pm 
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No, the flute did not sell. I agree with Kkrell that this is probably because Peter Noy is not that well known and there are very fine flutes available for half as much. Fortunately, while I am the typical not yet 70 retirees who acquired a few too many flutes over the years and would not mind downsizing, I do not need to sell and am happy to still have this flute. I think I have had a bit of new car syndrome with it over the past few years--being a bit afraid to play it and risk it cracking, warping, or rolling off the table. So, listing it unsuccessfully is not such a bad thing for me. I can now just go ahead and enjoy it without worrying about those things so much. Anyway, thanks again for all the nice comments about the flute. As I said, before, things usually work out for the best.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:58 pm 
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kkrell wrote:
Peter Noy is a fine flutemaker, but not as well known as others. His flutes used to get talked about quite a lot on C&F years ago, and there's quite a bit of craftsmanship there, particularly on his keywork. But other names have been more on the tip of the tongue lately. There are a lot of perfectly suitable wooden keyless flutes running from $700-1100 new or used, and Delrin ones even considerably lower, and I'd say we're still in a decline regarding prices, except for the most desirable instruments.

I think his flutes have more appeal to Boehm players who might double on ethnic flutes. Similar market to Windward Flutes, and that embouchure cut could market well to them.


Most of Peter's business is in the baroque to romantic community. I've bought two flutes from him, and his waiting list was about 24 months both times. He may not be well-known among Irish players, but he's quite well-known among the period-instrument community.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:30 pm 
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chas wrote:
kkrell wrote:
Peter Noy is a fine flutemaker, but not as well known as others. His flutes used to get talked about quite a lot on C&F years ago, and there's quite a bit of craftsmanship there, particularly on his keywork. But other names have been more on the tip of the tongue lately. There are a lot of perfectly suitable wooden keyless flutes running from $700-1100 new or used, and Delrin ones even considerably lower, and I'd say we're still in a decline regarding prices, except for the most desirable instruments.

I think his flutes have more appeal to Boehm players who might double on ethnic flutes. Similar market to Windward Flutes, and that embouchure cut could market well to them.

Most of Peter's business is in the baroque to romantic community. I've bought two flutes from him, and his waiting list was about 24 months both times. He may not be well-known among Irish players, but he's quite well-known among the period-instrument community.

Right, that seems to be his primary market.

Having owned one I'm a fan myself, and I second the preference for the Rudall embouchure. The square cut was easy to play right off the bat and had a fine, rich, powerful sound, but it didn't offer the range of color that I wanted and could get out of the Rudall cut. Being obstinately retrograde, I opted out of the blowing edge inlay. While it played well from the beginning, it took me a while to really get in the saddle, but once I did, I was surprised at the volume and sonority I could get with little effort, and bell-like quiet notes, too. Once I started getting a more advanced handle on it, it fairly flew. It wasn't so much that I trained my embouchure, as the flute trained me. And when I truly awakened to its capabilities, I saw how much I'd been trying too hard. If my experience is indicative, these flutes work better the more you relax into them. The trick is in figuring out how, and for me that meant throwing away effort in favor of discovery, but on the flute's terms. Others may like an initially easier route, but I found my experience worth it because each little accomplishment was very rewarding and instructive of things to come. If I could categorize it, I might call it a teacher's flute: as capable of professional performance as any top make, but with something extra. I wish I could explain it better than that, but suffice it to say that Noy's always worth a good look.

In retrospect, were I to change anything it would only be to have had a double touch for the Bb key. But I don't believe it was part of the options available at the time, otherwise I'm pretty sure I would have gone with it; what with the C#/C foot, I was all about the gear.

It should be kept in mind that Noy's preference has been to reproduce, more or less, the period examples. No doubt he brings his own ideas to the table, but he's very much about working for those who want an informed, historically accurate sound for performance purposes. The trad market as we know it isn't highest on his radar, but he takes all comers and is very pleasant and easy to work with.

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