Rudall & Rose 1305 on E-bay

[Steampacket]

Rudall & Rose 1305 is listed on E-bay now. It has a missing crown, cracked head joint, broken Bb key block and missing key, bent C natural key, and a corner/side of the short F natural key touch seems to be folded over for some reason. Location is Portsmouth, England

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rudall-and-r ... SwCPRaxRPh

[Matt_Paris]

Can you provide a link? I don't find it...

[Steampacket]

Sorry - added the link now in the original post

[kkrell]

Can you provide a link? I don't find it...

It's on eBay UK, may not ship to the U.S., so doesn't appear on eBay.com
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rudall-and-r ... 3540710133

Although the description says "Rundall".

The short F has a roller on it, as seen more clearly in the last photo.

The C key looks long, too, not just bent. Extended for reach?

[Matt_Paris]

The C key looks long, too, not just bent. Extended for reach?

Are you sure? it doesn't look longer than mine...

Also, have you seen what looks like a screw through the embouchure hole? Maybe the cork was put in place backwards...

[Steampacket]

Yes Kevin, my mistaken it is indeed a roller on the short F key touch. The straight C natural is bent, but not enlongated. It's the same length as on a Rudall I have in front of me. It's probably the camera angle that makes it look extended. Yes the cork may have been put in backwards, or the cork has been pushed or fallen into the head joint so far that the cork adjuster threads are in line with the embouchure hole

[Matt_Paris]

I placed a ridiculously low bet both to be reminded by the ebay app of what's happening on this sale, and in case nobody sees it...

Also the stamp on the flute is not really visible on the pictures, and if it actually reads "Rundall", it means it is one of those "Imposition against the Public" George Rudall and John Rose themselves warned us about 200 years ago.

Like the "Rudail & Rose" on Terry McGee's website.

I also remember seeing a "Ruddle & Rose" once.

[Steampacket]

Aye, I don't think the seller is a flute dealer, wheeler. Her/his other items for sale are cameras, so I think Rundall is just a typo and not stamped on the flute. I hope you get it Matt, or another player. I think they are great flutes.

[RudallRose]

Has no one noticed the description doesn't give the Piazza address for the maker's mark?
used to be you would all be skewering the poor fellow listing it.

This would also be the first extant Rudall with a banded embouchure.....btw.
According to the Rudall & Rose Catalogue, that is.

just sayin.

[Matt_Paris]

Has no one noticed the description doesn't give the Piazza address for the maker's mark?
used to be you would all be skewering the poor fellow listing it.

This would also be the first extant Rudall with a banded embouchure.....btw.
According to the Rudall & Rose Catalogue, that is.

just sayin.

I didn't check the adress... is #1305 supposed to be 15 Piazza? Do you have a document matching adresses and serial numbers?

The band could have been added later, don't you think?

I think its more and more likely this flute is a "Rundall"...

[jemtheflute]

Ok, so I've been playing about with the (poor) photos. I can see enough with assorted manipulation to be confident that the main address stamp includes the words Piazza and Covent Garden, though I can't make out a building number. I can't quite see the spelling of Rudall because of the curvature. However, the lower body stamp is quite clearly Rudall & Rose with no extraneous N. (The vendor doesn't include the N in the listing title anyway, just in the blurb - clearly a typo IMO.)

In addition to the stamps, typical R&R features include the steel reinforcing pins in the blocks and the apparent steps in the key shanks under the springs. The exposed Bb tone-hole is of the ring-edged type, common on R&Rs in the 1000-2000s. The short keys are counter-sprung - not an exclusive but a typical R&R feature.

The banded embouchure may be unusual on a R&R, but I don't see that as overriding the other stylistic indicators, and the stamps look good to me as far as I can get with them.

[Steampacket]

"I didn't check the adress... is #1305 supposed to be 15 Piazza? Do you have a document matching adresses and serial numbers? - The band could have been added later, don't you think? - I think its more and more likely this flute is a "Rundall"..." Matt.

Matt this is a bona fide Rudall & Rose flute. I've contacted the lady selling the flute about the stamp in order to verify, but I can see enough of the stamp to say that the address is correct for the given serial number: 15 Piazza St - Covent Garden - London.

Check Robert Bigio's fine book if you have access, or my register, or Terry McGee's eminent website to get some idea regarding Rudall flute addresses, and serial numbers.

Yes the silver band around the embouchure area could have been added at a later date as a repair to the embouchure hole or to contain a crack, or perhaps to address a player's allergy to cocuswood. It's also possible the flute was ordered with the silver band by the original owner to prevent an allergic reaction to cocuswood.

Don't be discouraged into not bidding. This is an old trick to sow seeds of discontent.

[Matt_Paris]

Matt this is a bona fide Rudall & Rose flute. I've contacted the lady selling the flute about the stamp in order to verify, but I can see enough of the stamp to say that the address is correct for the given serial number: 15 Piazza St - Covent Garden - London.

Check Robert Bigio's fine book if you have access, or my register, or Terry McGee's eminent website to get some idea regarding Rudall flute addresses, and serial numbers.
(...)

I think I'll have to buy a copy one day... It's expensive, but seems to be full of great info. I have a New Langwill, so I can check the adresses, but I'd like to be able to match adresses and serial numbers...

Where can I find your register?

Also, unrelated... Where are you in Sweden? Do you know good Irish music places in Stockholm? I go quite often since my brother lives there...

[Steampacket]

"I think I'll have to buy a copy one day... It's expensive, but seems to be full of great info. I have a New Langwill, so I can check the adresses, but I'd like to be able to match adresses and serial numbers... - Where can I find your register? - Also, unrelated... Where are you in Sweden? Do you know good Irish music places in Stockholm? I go quite often since my brother lives there..!" Matt

http://steampacket.ownit.nu/Rudall%20Ro ... ister.html

I'm based in southern Sweden. Eight hours drive from Stockholm.

There are at two regular weekly sessions in Stockholm:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/IrishMusicStockholm/
Wirströms pub on Monday evenings
O'Connells on Wednesday evenings

[Matt_Paris]

http://steampacket.ownit.nu/Rudall%20Ro ... ister.html

Thank you very much, that's great!
You can add mine:
No 15 Piazza, Covent Garden, London, 821. Cocuswood, 8 saltspoon keys with purse pads, reinforcing metal pins through the blocks. Low C & C# with pewter plugs, small holes. Basically exactly the same as Chris Norman's 742 except for the wood.

the head joint is cracked and has been repaired many times. At some point I'd like to have a new one made to the same specs... The inner diameter is the slightly smaller one that was used in the beginning (around 18.6 mm)

There are at two regular weekly sessions in Stockholm:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/IrishMusicStockholm/
Wirströms pub on Monday evenings
O'Connells on Wednesday evenings

I'll check that next time I'll go, thanks!