Lancewood

[jim stone]

I've never seen nor heard a lancewood flute, but I know lancewood
is used by some very good makers. I wonder if anybody can fill me in.
Is it lighter/less dense than grenadilla? Does it have a different sound?

[Geoffrey Ellis]

Here is some info about it:

http://www.wood-database.com/lancewood/

Looks like it would be a great instrument wood, but not readily available. Just for grins I went looking for some and got nowhere. Not a widely used timber it seems. But as a non-CITIES wood it would probably be a great alternative to boxwood (which is also a non-CITIES wood). But if you ever find a source, let me know!

[an seanduine]

Terry McGee uses it. Australian Red Lancewood also called Dead Finish or Dead Smooth Finish. He compares it to Cocus in finish. http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/materials.htm

Bob
edit: This is Acacia Shirleyi not the Oxandra lanceolata (syn. Uvaria lanceolata) or West Indian Lancewood, which appears quite blonde.

[gariwerd]

I don't think the link to lancewood Geoffrey pointed to is to the red lancewood you were meaning. That link is to a West Indian wood. Red Lancewood or Dead Finish is a native Australian hardwood, very slow growing and very hard. Here is a link to this species http://www.ttit.id.au/treepages/deadfinish.htm Note the interesting explanation of the origin of the name, 'Dead Finish' on that link. There were some sales of this wood on ebay a few months ago under the name 'Dead Finish' and I got a piece. There is still a couple there now but only for small pieces. But still perhaps you could contact the seller and enquire about larger sizes.

[csoroz]

Some time ago a Stéphane Morvan red lancewood was for sale here on Chiff & Fipple
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wEV-EyXEqA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0tTIFrKoi4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPv-M4R7VhQ

[MichaelM]

On the question of alternatives to CITES restricted blackwood, a UK-based pipemaker told me he is using Leadwood (Combretum imberbe) for his overseas orders. He claims it closely resembles blackwood, turns well but hard to plane. Has anyone heard of leadwood being used for flutes? Apparently it is so dense it sinks in water. Might be good for those weightier pieces of music. It is CITES free but I read that in S. Africa harvesting is banned. Maybe, it's next on the list.

[Casey Burns]

Its lack of commercial availability is probably why I would never choose it. As far as Boxwood, Octopus Wood in Turkey is a great supplier. There are some others in France and England who also provide some great wood. Occasionally one can get it here in the US when someone is removing topiary. Pat Olwell showed me some once that he got from an old southern plantation.

Blackwood remains a great wood to use. I would caution people (moderators should develop some guidelines here...by the way*) declaring it and other Rosewoods to be untouchable due to the CITES situation and simply fostering that attitude. It is still perfectly legal to hand carry an instrument made from it across a border, there is no restriction on its use and shipment within a country, and since most of us are using Pre-CITES Convention Blackwood currently anyway (otherwise it would be too wet to use for a decade or more) and it is still commonly available from domestic sources with good inventories of it, there is no reason not to use it.

The purpose of the Convention listing was to restrict the illegal harvesting and shipping by countries such as China which would rapidly deplete the resource. We flute makers are a small part of the market for blackwood whereas the Clarinet and Oboe makers are where most of it is used, and Highland Bagpipes next along with the general wood turning community. The intention is to make it possible that these instruments can still be made from it way into the future. This is a much different situation than Ivory and the endangered species that grow it.

Thus for those of us willing to export instruments made from it and those selling even a single instrument made from it to someone in another country, there is some necessary permit getting, paperwork and inspections that our governments require via International treaty. One solution is shop and sell locally. But really the hassle is not onerous.

Exploring alternatives is good - though these have been explored and some occasionally exploited to commercial extinction for millennia. Cocus was once the Wood du jour and Blackwood is the current candidate. But there are still sawmills in Africa going out and harvesting blackwood, brokers who deal with its export, wood importers and suppliers who sell it, and the African Blackwood Conservation Project who gets their support from these industries and users of blackwood and they still need our business. All are mostly supportive of its continued and sustainable availability way into the future.

Thus it is important not to stigmatize it, as some have started doing.

Casey

(*footnote - here I go "metamoderating" again...)

[AaronFW]

Thanks Casey, that is a lot of good and useful information.