Flute making Apprentices

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Terry McGee
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by Terry McGee »

...only since they invented the wheel....
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by benhall.1 »

Terry McGee wrote:...only since they invented the wheel....
I've looked it up now. I'm none the wiser. It seems to be both. I can't find a particular preference for "handbasket" or "handcart" at any particular time or place. They're just both used.
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by an seanduine »

On a guess, I searched Hieronymus Bosch. I found this image:
https://jessicastraus.files.wordpress.c ... .jpg?w=768

So we know Hieronymus didn´t just have a thing for funnels. . not sure what´s going on with the creature suspended in the basket.

Bob
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by benhall.1 »

an seanduine wrote:On a guess, I searched Hieronymus Bosch. I found this image:
https://jessicastraus.files.wordpress.c ... .jpg?w=768

So we know Hieronymus didn´t just have a thing for funnels. . not sure what´s going on with the creature suspended in the basket.

Bob
Well ... it's a basket ... but is it a handbasket? I mean, I honestly don't know the answer to that. Also, several of the sites I found the phrase, in either of its forms, suggested that it originated in the States. I must be missing something somewhere ... or maybe it's just one of those phrases that nobody now knows the origin of.
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by an seanduine »

I´m not sure if this link will hold up. It´s not a hand cart, but rather a form of hay-wagon, a hay-wain.
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesig ... hell#img-1

There´s little doubt they are on their way to Hell. . .it is after all Hieronymus Bosch.

Bob
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by an seanduine »

I cannot seem to find a marvelous pen and ink drawing I have seen from Germany in the 1800´s showing a gigantic devil holding a handbasket full of unhappy sinners. . .

Bob
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by an seanduine »

And of course who can forget ´Sixteen Come Next Sunday´ on ´The Well Below the Valley´ by Planxty. . the devil visits a girl in her chamber by way of a ladder and a creel. When her mother enters the chamber to interrupt this tryst, she stumbles into the creel and the devil rocks her all the way to hell in the creel.

Devils seem to be woven into the idea of baskets. :twisted:

Bob
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by an seanduine »

Alas, I´ve been played false by my memory! The song was ´Pretty Peg´ and the group was ´The Bothy Band´. Oh, well, it´s just senile CRS disease! (Can´t Remember Stuff.)

Bob
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by benhall.1 »

an seanduine wrote:Alas, I´ve been played false by my memory! The song was ´Pretty Peg´ and the group was ´The Bothy Band´. Oh, well, it´s just senile CRS disease! (Can´t Remember Stuff.)

Bob
I thought I couldn't remember it on The Well Below the Valley. There's enough gruesome stuff on there, mind, including the title track.
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by kmag »

benhall.1 wrote:
Terry McGee wrote:...only since they invented the wheel....
I've looked it up now. I'm none the wiser. It seems to be both. I can't find a particular preference for "handbasket" or "handcart" at any particular time or place. They're just both used.
I always had the impression that the term "going to hell in a handbasket" meant things were going bad a little at a time. As time goes on it seems to have taken on the opposite meaning. Going to hell in a handcart, an expression I have never heard before, would be a much faster descent.
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by awildman »

I've always thought 'going to hell in a handbasket' was mostly used as emphasis because of the alliteration. There are other phrases which seem to do the same thing, like "I don't give a fiddler's $%^$."
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by Nanohedron »

kmag wrote:I always had the impression that the term "going to hell in a handbasket" meant things were going bad a little at a time. As time goes on it seems to have taken on the opposite meaning.
Whether handbasket or handcart, to me the image of being carried means the situation is out of my hands; let's say a water main burst and my basement's getting flooded and my precious origami collection is ruined and I still have payments to make on it: the situation has gone to hell in a handbasket.

I have an alternative way I use it: going to hell in a handbasket is basically the same as going merrily with bells on, with a cherry on top.
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by benhall.1 »

Nanohedron wrote:
kmag wrote:I always had the impression that the term "going to hell in a handbasket" meant things were going bad a little at a time. As time goes on it seems to have taken on the opposite meaning.
Whether handbasket or handcart, to me the image of being carried means the situation is out of my hands; let's say a water main burst and my basement's getting flooded and my precious origami collection is ruined and I still have payments to make on it: the situation has gone to hell in a handbasket.

I have an alternative way I use it: going to hell in a handbasket is basically the same as going merrily with bells on, with a cherry on top.
For me, the expression has always been "going to hell in a handcart" and has conjured up images of the plague carts, which were wheeled round to collect the dead.
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by david_h »

benhall.1 wrote:For me, the expression has always been "going to hell in a handcart" and has conjured up images of the plague carts, which were wheeled round to collect the dead.
Similarly I had thought of it being along the lines of heading for a paupers grave, more a disposal than a funeral, with worse to come.
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by waltsweet »

I find it a bit odd that we have had online forums such as Flute Tech and Flutemakers, but now a long thread on C&F.

Years ago, Landell told me that a person who becomes a flutemaker will also become a tool maker. The two are inseparable.

If a person wants to make flutes, and wants to test several rates of taper for the reamer, but has no reamer, I have an alternative. Instead of making a reamer, make a smooth, tapered mandrel. Can be easily made in aluminum. To use, get a decent piece of wood; Mexican Rosewood is much cheaper than blackwood. Drill thru with clearance (step-drilling is even better; see below). Allow about a millimeter of clearance all around (check now, not after waxing). Buy the large tubes of 5-minute epoxy at Harbor Freight. Apply a thin coat of beeswax to the mandrel, and use it as a core: daub the mix into the big opening, and displace the resin all the way up. Cure overnight at least. If you have a drying box with light bulbs, it will help release the core (use a hammer or a press). Proceed making this into a flute. If the taper is wrong, make another mandrel and repeat. A hard, wooden bore is better than the epoxy, but only marginally. The main principles of tuning and acoustics will reliably be proved-out by using the epoxy method. Once you're happy with the design, you can commit to a reamer. To make the flute that's an excellent flute, there will be plenty of work regarding the physical scale (tonehole lattice), shape of the toneholes, length of head, cork placement and treatment of the blowhole.

Step-drilling will save lots of time in shaping the bore, but more importantly, it will save wear on that reamer you've worked so hard to make. I use it even with the fancy production reamers for two reasons. 1., It saves wear on the expensive reamers. If a reamer does all the enlarging from the pilot bore, then the reamer will do more work and get dull at the small end; the big end will have very little work to do (it's the last to enter the hole). If a reamer is dull, especially at the tip, it will chatter. 2., Long reamers, especially, tend to chatter if they start their cutting at the tip (in contrast, with steps, the reamer engages the work in several places). One or two steps will make a big difference. Steps can be cut by drilling in stages using different diameter drills. If you start with the largest twist bit, it will make a cone at the bottom of the holes that serves as a seat to guide the next smaller bit. Note: drilling from small to large may sound more familiar, but a bigger bit will not be concentric with a smaller hole. An alternative is an extended counterbore with a pilot which has been fluted for chip-ejection. For my production instruments, I had the toolmaker grind me a step-drill from a long twist bit. Back-taper offers a great advantage! If you chuck the work, the pilot hole needs to be co-axial (concentric) with the reamer; after drilling the pilot hole, turn the OD of the work between centers, at least where the chuck will hold the work during reaming. These measures will reduce chatter.

I see the setup for milling a spoon reamer in the milling machine. I suggest a cobalt ball mill and cutting fluid for long service life. If you tip the head of the mill (B-axis), the cut will be the same while the cutter will always have some surface speed at the bottom of the cut. I like drill rod, which can be cut easily with cobalt. I imagine you can get it heat treated (hardened) on subcontract. I think someone will take the job, even it they have to straighten it.

A fine organization is Gammons Hoaglund in Manchester, CT. They're finishing my latest flute reamer to the tune of $745, and worth every penny. Cobalt steel can cost 10% more but last twice as long. Gammons gives expert design advice when you're ready to commit. They can make a simple reamer for much less.

According to Rayleigh's Rules, the diameter of the bore is what counts at each Critical Station (antinodes for flow and for pressure). The shape comes into play when we talk about the ratio of bores between these stations, especially regarding the higher notes.

I have an apprentice. The program is funded by the arts council (the Connecticut Historical Society). So far, so good.

I'm planning to organize a Flutemaking Retreat. The product would be a simple keyless flute, but students would get a taste of the process, and have some hand in the result. As it's been said, beginners need some savvy about tools and woodworking.

Walt Sweet
Last edited by waltsweet on Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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