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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:20 pm 
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...only since they invented the wheel....


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:05 am 
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Terry McGee wrote:
...only since they invented the wheel....

I've looked it up now. I'm none the wiser. It seems to be both. I can't find a particular preference for "handbasket" or "handcart" at any particular time or place. They're just both used.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:40 am 
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On a guess, I searched Hieronymus Bosch. I found this image:
https://jessicastraus.files.wordpress.c ... .jpg?w=768

So we know Hieronymus didn´t just have a thing for funnels. . not sure what´s going on with the creature suspended in the basket.

Bob

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:50 am 
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an seanduine wrote:
On a guess, I searched Hieronymus Bosch. I found this image:
https://jessicastraus.files.wordpress.c ... .jpg?w=768

So we know Hieronymus didn´t just have a thing for funnels. . not sure what´s going on with the creature suspended in the basket.

Bob

Well ... it's a basket ... but is it a handbasket? I mean, I honestly don't know the answer to that. Also, several of the sites I found the phrase, in either of its forms, suggested that it originated in the States. I must be missing something somewhere ... or maybe it's just one of those phrases that nobody now knows the origin of.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:54 am 
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I´m not sure if this link will hold up. It´s not a hand cart, but rather a form of hay-wagon, a hay-wain.
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesig ... hell#img-1

There´s little doubt they are on their way to Hell. . .it is after all Hieronymus Bosch.

Bob

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:58 am 
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I cannot seem to find a marvelous pen and ink drawing I have seen from Germany in the 1800´s showing a gigantic devil holding a handbasket full of unhappy sinners. . .

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:17 am 
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And of course who can forget ´Sixteen Come Next Sunday´ on ´The Well Below the Valley´ by Planxty. . the devil visits a girl in her chamber by way of a ladder and a creel. When her mother enters the chamber to interrupt this tryst, she stumbles into the creel and the devil rocks her all the way to hell in the creel.

Devils seem to be woven into the idea of baskets. :twisted:

Bob

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:44 am 
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Alas, I´ve been played false by my memory! The song was ´Pretty Peg´ and the group was ´The Bothy Band´. Oh, well, it´s just senile CRS disease! (Can´t Remember Stuff.)

Bob

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:57 am 
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an seanduine wrote:
Alas, I´ve been played false by my memory! The song was ´Pretty Peg´ and the group was ´The Bothy Band´. Oh, well, it´s just senile CRS disease! (Can´t Remember Stuff.)

Bob

I thought I couldn't remember it on The Well Below the Valley. There's enough gruesome stuff on there, mind, including the title track.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:08 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
Terry McGee wrote:
...only since they invented the wheel....

I've looked it up now. I'm none the wiser. It seems to be both. I can't find a particular preference for "handbasket" or "handcart" at any particular time or place. They're just both used.


I always had the impression that the term "going to hell in a handbasket" meant things were going bad a little at a time. As time goes on it seems to have taken on the opposite meaning. Going to hell in a handcart, an expression I have never heard before, would be a much faster descent.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:19 am 
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I've always thought 'going to hell in a handbasket' was mostly used as emphasis because of the alliteration. There are other phrases which seem to do the same thing, like "I don't give a fiddler's $%^$."


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:05 pm 
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kmag wrote:
I always had the impression that the term "going to hell in a handbasket" meant things were going bad a little at a time. As time goes on it seems to have taken on the opposite meaning.

Whether handbasket or handcart, to me the image of being carried means the situation is out of my hands; let's say a water main burst and my basement's getting flooded and my precious origami collection is ruined and I still have payments to make on it: the situation has gone to hell in a handbasket.

I have an alternative way I use it: going to hell in a handbasket is basically the same as going merrily with bells on, with a cherry on top.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:17 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
kmag wrote:
I always had the impression that the term "going to hell in a handbasket" meant things were going bad a little at a time. As time goes on it seems to have taken on the opposite meaning.

Whether handbasket or handcart, to me the image of being carried means the situation is out of my hands; let's say a water main burst and my basement's getting flooded and my precious origami collection is ruined and I still have payments to make on it: the situation has gone to hell in a handbasket.

I have an alternative way I use it: going to hell in a handbasket is basically the same as going merrily with bells on, with a cherry on top.

For me, the expression has always been "going to hell in a handcart" and has conjured up images of the plague carts, which were wheeled round to collect the dead.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:58 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
For me, the expression has always been "going to hell in a handcart" and has conjured up images of the plague carts, which were wheeled round to collect the dead.
Similarly I had thought of it being along the lines of heading for a paupers grave, more a disposal than a funeral, with worse to come.


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