Top-end Flutes?
- RudallRose
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Re: Top-end Flutes?
Every time this thread pops up ... and it undoubtedly will again ... I shake my head and chuckle.
It's because no real answer or consensus is ever reached to the originator's question.
Ultimately, it all comes down to a matter of taste.
No one would dare come up with a list of low-end makers, would they?
And kudo to Julia Delaney (aka David) for noting that Patrick Olwell does not sell his flutes for that high a price (with the one exception being his annual-- and very special -- birthday flute that he presents on eBay to the highest bidder....which has reached as much as $11,000, btw).
It would be interesting to see how many have sold their Olwell for what they paid for it. I'd venture very few.
The highest I've yet seen paid for a modern-made Irish flute? ~$15,000 on the secondary market ....for an Olwell with 14k gold keys. (Pat says he's made 2 of them).
And you can get a run-of-the-mill Rudall (yes, they exist) for about $3k (in beautiful playing shape)....
or the nicer figured wood variety (almost reddish of grain) for much more.....
and the boxwood ones in great shape? One recently garnered about $6-7,000 and apparently plays stupendously.
It's all in what you can afford, what you like and what you're willing to pay.
But you won't actually know until you've played them all, will you?
Hence, FAD.
It's because no real answer or consensus is ever reached to the originator's question.
Ultimately, it all comes down to a matter of taste.
No one would dare come up with a list of low-end makers, would they?
And kudo to Julia Delaney (aka David) for noting that Patrick Olwell does not sell his flutes for that high a price (with the one exception being his annual-- and very special -- birthday flute that he presents on eBay to the highest bidder....which has reached as much as $11,000, btw).
It would be interesting to see how many have sold their Olwell for what they paid for it. I'd venture very few.
The highest I've yet seen paid for a modern-made Irish flute? ~$15,000 on the secondary market ....for an Olwell with 14k gold keys. (Pat says he's made 2 of them).
And you can get a run-of-the-mill Rudall (yes, they exist) for about $3k (in beautiful playing shape)....
or the nicer figured wood variety (almost reddish of grain) for much more.....
and the boxwood ones in great shape? One recently garnered about $6-7,000 and apparently plays stupendously.
It's all in what you can afford, what you like and what you're willing to pay.
But you won't actually know until you've played them all, will you?
Hence, FAD.
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Re: Top-end Flutes?
A while ago somebody mentioned ergonomics; other than price, that is an absolutely hard, objective criteria that can make or a break a flute-to-player relationship. It's worth considering for any potential purchase. I happen to have normal-to-large hands, so stretch is not a huge deal, but it turns out that I can be fairly prone to tendonitis. My first flute weighed a good bit more than my (six-keyed!) Murray, and gave me no end of issues on the pain front.
Unfortunately beginners just have to experiment and learn by experience for some of these considerations.
Unfortunately beginners just have to experiment and learn by experience for some of these considerations.
My name is John. It is NOT "OP."
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Re: Top-end Flutes?
I'm going to chime in here now, especially regarding the Copley/Gallagher "debate". I've about 6 years now trying to figure this flute thing out. Started out with a Tipple. Enjoyed learning to get a sound out of it and it was a great introduction to the flute. Then, I went for a Copley Delrin. I'm lazy and I know that I won't look after a wooden flute the way it should. It has a silver tuning slide, silver rings and a footjoint. I wanted something that looked like a flute. This one really does. It also has the eliptical embouchure. I'm getting along well enough with it and I can get the sound that I like from it. I've been itching to try a wooden flute and I thought about makers.( I must add that EVERYTHING that I know about flutes and fluting, I've learned here! Thak you all for such great advice and insight!) I narrowed my choices down to LeSoeuf, Gallagher, and Doyle. Then finally decided that I would like to try a Gallagher, Rudall with large hole. Again, based on what I read here. Emailed John and got the price and wait time and such. Then , A Gallagher pratten came up for sale. ( Thank you pmcallis ). I bought it. Got it yesterday and I quite like it. It looks to be about the exact same size as my Copley. Other than blowing a Hamilton for 5 or 6 notes, I've never held or played a wooden flute. Had to write the seller and ask if it was indeed wood as it looks more like a plastic flute. It is so polished and smooth. Inexperience I, as well, expected the clouds to part and to magically "have it". Not the case. I sound the same as well. My wife gets a kick out of my confusion. I love the sound of my Copley and it true what someone said, it is optimized for that hard sound and it really does have it and with good volume as well. . I know that I need to work in the Gallagher embouchure and try to get the best out of it, but for now, my best is coming from the Copley. I may just be looking for a wooden Copley now but I really do enjoy the Gallagher and I'm sure that if I had five years with it first, then my mind would possibly be different. Sorry about such a long post just to get to the point. At least I got the wooden flute "itch" scratched!
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Re: Top-end Flutes?
Here are some "top-end flutes". The waiting times and prices, for keyed flutes
Stéphane Morvan - 6 keyed flute wait 14 months - price €3200 = $3766
http://morvanflutes.wixsite.com/stephan ... s---prices
Glen Watson: - 6 keyed flute wait 10 months - price €2530 = $2978
http://www.watsonflutes.com/products.html
John Gallagher - 6 keyed flute wait ? - price ?
http://gallagherflutes.com/flutes/
Solen Lesoeuf - 6 keyed flute wait ? - price €1825 - $2148
http://www.atelierdelutherie.info/Irish-Flutes?lang=en
Hammy Hamilton - 6 keyed flute wait 14-18 months - price €3290 = $3872
http://www.hamiltonflutes.com/Prices.html
Eamon Cotter - 6 keyed flute wait ? - price ?
http://cotterfluteworkshop.com/?page_id=34
Michael Grinter - 6 keyed flute wait 15-18 months - price €3400 = $4001
https://www.grinterflutes.com/flutes/
Marcus Hernon - keyless flutes only wait 6 months - price €1000 = $1177
http://www.marcushernon.com/index.php/my-flutes
Martin Doyle - 6 keyed flute wait up to 24 months - €2810 = $3307
http://www.martindoyleflutes.com/tradit ... lutes.html
Terry McGee - 6 keyed flute wait ? - price Australian dollars 3345 = €2268 = $2670 (2009 prices)
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/orders.html
Peter Noy - 6 keyed flute wait? - price €3526 = $4150
http://www.noyflutes.com/irish_flutes.html
Holmes-McNaughton - 6/8 keyed flute wait? - price?
http://holmesmcnaughton.com/flutes/
The last cocuswood Rudall & Rose I bought in Sept., 2014, cost €1340 = $1577. Total cost is now €1498 = $1762 which includes new pads, a new short F key spring, and a crack, in one of the two head joints, stabilised. These Victorian Rudall flutes are "top-end flutes", and are a very viable alternative, financially, to a modern flute these days.
Stéphane Morvan - 6 keyed flute wait 14 months - price €3200 = $3766
http://morvanflutes.wixsite.com/stephan ... s---prices
Glen Watson: - 6 keyed flute wait 10 months - price €2530 = $2978
http://www.watsonflutes.com/products.html
John Gallagher - 6 keyed flute wait ? - price ?
http://gallagherflutes.com/flutes/
Solen Lesoeuf - 6 keyed flute wait ? - price €1825 - $2148
http://www.atelierdelutherie.info/Irish-Flutes?lang=en
Hammy Hamilton - 6 keyed flute wait 14-18 months - price €3290 = $3872
http://www.hamiltonflutes.com/Prices.html
Eamon Cotter - 6 keyed flute wait ? - price ?
http://cotterfluteworkshop.com/?page_id=34
Michael Grinter - 6 keyed flute wait 15-18 months - price €3400 = $4001
https://www.grinterflutes.com/flutes/
Marcus Hernon - keyless flutes only wait 6 months - price €1000 = $1177
http://www.marcushernon.com/index.php/my-flutes
Martin Doyle - 6 keyed flute wait up to 24 months - €2810 = $3307
http://www.martindoyleflutes.com/tradit ... lutes.html
Terry McGee - 6 keyed flute wait ? - price Australian dollars 3345 = €2268 = $2670 (2009 prices)
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/orders.html
Peter Noy - 6 keyed flute wait? - price €3526 = $4150
http://www.noyflutes.com/irish_flutes.html
Holmes-McNaughton - 6/8 keyed flute wait? - price?
http://holmesmcnaughton.com/flutes/
The last cocuswood Rudall & Rose I bought in Sept., 2014, cost €1340 = $1577. Total cost is now €1498 = $1762 which includes new pads, a new short F key spring, and a crack, in one of the two head joints, stabilised. These Victorian Rudall flutes are "top-end flutes", and are a very viable alternative, financially, to a modern flute these days.
- chas
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Re: Top-end Flutes?
I paid $4100 for a customized boxwood Olwell (not included in Steampacket's list) 6-key recently. Wait was long, I'm not sure how long, but that was to some extent because what I wanted was unusual.
Charlie
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Re: Top-end Flutes?
That was very helpful Steampacket. Thank you.
- Latticino
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Re: Top-end Flutes?
While I agree regarding the relative value of vintage or antique "top end flutes", and preferentially play a 6 key Wm. Hall that I self restored, there is one other thing to consider: if something goes wrong with your antique you have no warrantee, nor can you go back to the maker for fine tuning. As with the difference between buying a new vehicle from a dealer or a used one from the previous owner, for some folks I'm sure having that capability is worth something extra.
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Re: Top-end Flutes?
Is there some recommended source for these older R&R flutes? What I see on ebay typically is at a premium and almost always has cracks or other big problems.
- kkrell
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Re: Top-end Flutes?
Jon C. on C&F (Jon Cornia on Facebook) sometimes has ones he's restored to service that don;t belong to his customers. Jon Dodd in Miltown Malbay sometimes has one for sale.hpinson wrote:Is there some recommended source for these older R&R flutes? What I see on ebay typically is at a premium and almost always has cracks or other big problems.
- jemtheflute
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Re: Top-end Flutes?
As do I from time to time. I've never yet sold an actual R&R, TBF, though I did sell a very nice later Rudall Carte 8-key earlier this year (it was on the UIE). I've had and sold some other lesser name but excellent playing flutes (eg Hawkes & Son) and I've a ruck of such things awaiting restoration. I simply don't have time to get them done very frequently or regularly, unfortunately.kkrell wrote:Jon C. on C&F (Jon Cornia on Facebook) sometimes has ones he's restored to service that don't belong to his customers. Jon Dodd in Miltown Malbay sometimes has one for sale.
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Re: Top-end Flutes?
Regarding John Gallagher
John Gallagher - 6 keyed flute wait 18 months - price $3000
http://gallagherflutes.com/flutes/
hpinson asked:
"Is there some recommended source for these older R&R flutes? What I see on ebay typically is at a premium and almost always has cracks or other big problems"
Check E-bay anyway. There are chancers asking way too much for their Rudalls, but now and then a Rudall does pop up and can go for a low price. There are currently a couple of R&R eight key flutes on E-bay, one has a starting bid of £2200. For ex. I paid £1200 for a R&R on E-bay with two head joints, which is now playing fine since Jon Dodd sorted the pads, a key spring, and stabilised a crack on the back of one head joint.
Otherwise check the English/Scottish/Irish auctions on line. This is where you can often find a bargain if you do research and pay attention. You may risk raising the ire of collectors/dealers/"self appointed experts" here and there, across the pond, and elsewhere, but do it anyway. It's good if these exceptional Victorian flutes get played.
John Gallagher - 6 keyed flute wait 18 months - price $3000
http://gallagherflutes.com/flutes/
hpinson asked:
"Is there some recommended source for these older R&R flutes? What I see on ebay typically is at a premium and almost always has cracks or other big problems"
Check E-bay anyway. There are chancers asking way too much for their Rudalls, but now and then a Rudall does pop up and can go for a low price. There are currently a couple of R&R eight key flutes on E-bay, one has a starting bid of £2200. For ex. I paid £1200 for a R&R on E-bay with two head joints, which is now playing fine since Jon Dodd sorted the pads, a key spring, and stabilised a crack on the back of one head joint.
Otherwise check the English/Scottish/Irish auctions on line. This is where you can often find a bargain if you do research and pay attention. You may risk raising the ire of collectors/dealers/"self appointed experts" here and there, across the pond, and elsewhere, but do it anyway. It's good if these exceptional Victorian flutes get played.