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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:05 pm 
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There must be a better a way to ask this, but...

Now I know he's not everyone's cup of tea and he's not really my daily brew, but hold with me a moment. I've been relistening to that album Hayes did with Dennis Cahill, the Lonesome Touch, and I started wondering if there's anyone out there doing some of the things I hear him doing with tunes on the flute. Specifically, the way he takes tunes like the Kerfunten and teases them out, unspools them almost, playing dance tunes in this reflective way, still with rhythmic lift but with a lot of breathing room, very lyrical. And, you know, slower sometimes.

Obviously there are many flute players who play very fine, expressive slow airs, but I'm wondering who is giving that Hayesian Lonesome Touch treatment to jigs and reels and so on. Or even just employing more relaxed, laid back tempi. When I thought of that the first example that occurred to me was Crawford doing Bag of Spuds on the Bb flute* and then remembered he was playing with Hayes... is part of it that the fiddle and its flexibility make it more apt for this approach? Or is it that Hayes is coming out of a milieu of idiosyncratic fiddle players like Potts who do that kind of thing and there isn't as much history of fluters playing material that way?

Please forgive if it's a silly question-- and anyway I'm bracing myself to feel like a dope when someone gives three good examples and I was listening to all of them a week ago and somehow forgot!

*lovely track by the way, and I think I recall it being the subject of something Ciaran Carson wrote-- how he had been of the opinion that the Bag of Spuds was just one of those tunes that sounds best played quickly but then he heard that version and thought it very fine


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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:41 pm 
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You said you might be interested in flooters who play at a relaxed tempo,
and so I thought of Mike Rafferty. Generally I think flutes can do a good deal of
what fiddles can do.


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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:51 pm 
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Ah, Mike Rafferty's lovely! And honest to goodness, I had just thought a few days ago that I should listen to more of him. As soon as I read your comment I listened to a track of him playing Young Tom Ennis and Jerry's Beaver Hat. Jerry's Beaver is one of those tunes I always tend to play too fast for whatever reason, and his take on it was great. And Young Tom Ennis-- wanted to learn it as soon as I heard it once through, so after I look it up quick on thesession-- and first entry about it says Some folks in Bristol (a decade ago at least) called a G Dorian version of it the Martin Hayes' Jig! I think Young Tom Ennis or the Banshee's Wail over the Mangle Pit might still be a better name.


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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:34 pm 
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I know the Banshee's Wail. I was fortunate to take a workshop with Mike R at the St. Louis Tional.
He was a good teacher. It was like having a kindly Irish grandfather.


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 2:28 am 
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Kevin Crawford plays a nice laid back version of "The Green Fields Of Rossbeigh and The New Policeman" on a Bb flute on the "D flute" CD

Steph Geremia starts off with some calm playing on "The conspiracy"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UxM7PtzlhY


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 8:24 am 
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There is a flute player that comes from the same area as Martin Hayes and has played both with Martin and his Father P.J. His name is Leo MacNamara and is excellent.

I would suggest looking up his CD that he made with harp player Triona Marshall. It is available on his webpage and through Custy's I believe.


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 9:10 am 
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kmag wrote:
There is a flute player that comes from the same area as Martin Hayes and has played both with Martin and his Father P.J. His name is Leo MacNamara and is excellent.

I would suggest looking up his CD that he made with harp player Triona Marshall. It is available on his webpage and through Custy's I believe.



He also sells it through eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Irish-Flute-and ... 2444297547


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 9:43 am 
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You might want to check out Brid O'Gorman, who came out with a nice album of tunes on C flute with bouzouki player Eoin O'Neill last year. Very relaxed pace, lyrical playing.

One of the things to be aware of is that in Martin Hayes's playing and that of some of the other East Clare fiddlers there's a fair amount of dynamic range (loud to soft), whereas in Irish flute playing most traditional players don't vary the volume to the same extent (except to accentuate certain notes more than others for rhythmic emphasis).


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:11 am 
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I suppose much of Martin Hayes' performance music is really Martin Hayes' own take and development of his influences. He can wear many hats though. The fluteplayers in the Tulla would fit, when he's wearing that particular hat. But that's dance mode, playing for the sets, but with that particular Tulla lift and swing.

A bit embarrassed to say the name of the man on the left of the picture escapes me at the moment, the other is JJ Conway, Jenifer Lenihan is also in the band but not in the picture (microphones in the way and all that).

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Quote:
You might want to check out Brid O'Gorman,


Yes, I was thinking that as well, to some extent anyway.


[edit]

here's one of Jenifer Lenihan, taken on the same occasion as the one above (the band had three flutes going that night). It's a bit glary.

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Last edited by Mr.Gumby on Mon May 29, 2017 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:05 am 
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Terrific photo, as ever.


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 2:53 pm 
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Ah, thank you everyone for the suggestions-- some great music. I watched a couple of clips online of Mac Namara and O'Gorman at Custy's, really enjoyed their respective styles. There was something about O'Gorman's sound especially that really struck me-- and I'll definitely be checking out Conway and Lenihan as soon as I can. Thanks!

Brad-- you're right on about the dynamics, that's a big part of the sound I'm hearing. I've noticed that the flutes tend not to play with that dimension quite as much. Most of the stuff I listen to is of a more traditional bent rather than this more performer-listener oriented material, so it makes sense-- as a style growing out of playing for dances, you want to keep a steady volume, and the stuff growing out of session playing, you want to be able to hear yourself. But I suppose even those explanations like that are speculative-- it's easy to try to explain features and quirks of a style as being a result of x or y or z, but who knows-- what's idiomatic is idiomatic, what sounds right sounds right. There are exceptions of course. (This is the very beginning of my career as a discussion board contributor, and I'm already noticing I am one of the digressing and hedging and over-qualifying ones-- just like in real life actually.) Anyway, it hadn't occurred to me that it was also part of the general Clare fiddle toolbox-- thank you for pointing it out!

I suppose a clearer way of stating what I was initially after was who on the flute is playing variations and reinterpretations of dance tunes in that somewhat less dance-able mode in which Hayes sometimes works.

Edit-- steampacket! I heard her doing the Conspiracy set a while ago and loved it then completely forgot about it until you posted that link-- very grateful for the reminder.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:17 am 
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Quote:
Anyway, it hadn't occurred to me that it was also part of the general Clare fiddle toolbox-- thank you for pointing it out!


It's one of Martin Hayes' developments of elements Paddy Canny and Martin Rochford's music. I don't think you can take it as a wide spread phenomenon.

There was a program on TG4 a while ago about the Tulla ceilioband, you'll get some of the fluteplaying of the people I mentioned earlier in that, and a sense of their lift and rhythm. If it's still on-line somewhere.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:36 am 
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Who are some other fluters like fiddlers combinations? To be honest, I know there are flute / fiddle duos that blend well together, but does that make them the flute equivalent of such-and-such fiddler? For example, Matt Molloy and Tommy Peoples played together and recorded a bit, but I would not say either is particularly like the other. Matt Molloy and Sean Keane? John Wynne and John McEvoy, maybe?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:36 am 
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Who are some other fluters like fiddlers combinations? To be honest, I know there are flute / fiddle duos that blend well together, but does that make them the flute equivalent of such-and-such fiddler? For example, Matt Molloy and Tommy Peoples played together and recorded a bit, but I would not say either is particularly like the other. Matt Molloy and Sean Keane? John Wynne and John McEvoy, maybe? Or Peter Horan and Fred Finn?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:00 am 
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Akiba wrote:
Who are some other fluters like fiddlers combinations? To be honest, I know there are flute / fiddle duos that blend well together, but does that make them the flute equivalent of such-and-such fiddler? For example, Matt Molloy and Tommy Peoples played together and recorded a bit, but I would not say either is particularly like the other. Matt Molloy and Sean Keane? John Wynne and John McEvoy, maybe?


Matt Molloy's and Sean Keane's individual styles are very different, but together they were very tight on the Contentment is Wealth album. I think most good players adjust to the person they're playing with, and over time that can lead to a compatible blend. Fred Finn and Peter Horan were an example. I once met a fiddler from Roscommon who studied with an East Galway fiddle player, and when we first met and played a few tunes in a session everyone hearing us remarked that it sounded as if we'd been playing together for years. It was simply because we'd been drinking from the same well. My own main flute influences are from Roscommon and East Galway players. Our phrasing was identical, settings were similar, etc. So there's that too: if people have similar influences and tastes, their styles are likely to be compatible.


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