Buying a flute in a post-CITES world...

[vermichou]

Hey guys,

I'm in the process of buying a flute to a fellow player based in Australia (and I'm in Europe). Problem is: CITES is a hot mess... Does the seller need a permit for the flute (that was built way before CITES)? Is the original receipt enough to go through customs without any problem?

Can you shed some light pretty please?

Cheers!

Michel

[pancelticpiper]

It would be great to know.

Our Used Instrument Exchange Forum is full of wooden instruments, with the seller's byline not revealing where they live.

Now we have to think about that every time we go to sell or buy.

[Casey Burns]

I don't know the permit processes in other countries, but I suspect that one-time permits are available, as they are here in the US.

Anyone selling a blackwood or rosewood instrument located in the US to someone outside of the US is supposed to obtain a permit using the same form that us US makers are using. This is the permit application url: https://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-32.pdf

The fee for a one time permit is $75. Note that you will probably wait 2 months! This might also be the case in other countries.

I am still waiting for my permits which I am not expecting until late March. In the meantime I have 3 international clients who are waiting as well. There is nothing I can do about this unless I choose to send the flutes out under cover. But that has risks and severe penalties (one being that I would not be able to get these permits in the first place!) so I don't recommend it. I know its a drag and it will make some of the lovely antique instruments in Europe that come up for sale frequently unavailable to us, even while the dollar is strong!

One minor concern that I have is that will they know the difference between protected Rosewoods and other woods such as Cocus and Mopane. To the untrained eye these are Rosewood-like. I'll have to insert a note with such instruments naming the species and the fact that these are not CITES protected species, should my packages be opened and inspected. So far none of my clients have reported any evidence of packages being opened.

Casey

[kkrell]

I've looked up a few countries, and it seems permits are required for both the importing and exporting country, regardless of whether the CITES-restricted item is pre- or post-ban. While some countries do have exemptions not requiring permits for exporting certain native species, any exemptions do not apply when they are listed in the CITES articles. What does vary are the fees required on each end for the CITES permits. As discussed elsewhere, Canada, for instance, does not charge a fee for the export permit, although it looks as if you have to already have the import permit for the destination in readiness.

BTW, it would be helpful if sellers and buyers indicate the country the instrument is travelling to/from. "Europe" as mentioned by the OP, does not have a single regulation, despite there being a union of nations. France, as an example, has its own customs and CITES handling.

[Tunborough]

I've looked up a few countries, and it seems permits are required for both the importing and exporting country, regardless of whether the CITES-restricted item is pre- or post-ban.

For Appendix II woods, Canada requires export permits only, no import permits, for incoming or outgoing shipments. I don't know if this applies to other countries.

[vermichou]

Hi,

Thanks all for your precious feedback. Good to know it takes about 2 months to get the permit, that just closed the deal lol.

I guess it won't make it any easier to sell flutes...

Thanks again!

Michel

[pancelticpiper]

It may be a rare case, and not helpful to many people, but I just got the African Blackwood bagpipe section made in Canada, and the CITES form that was shipped with it.

The form Rick Pettigrew at Dunbar Bagpipes used says:

Environment Canada
Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora
Re-Export Certificate

B. Dalbergia melanoxylon
Rosewood

Bagpipe part

Country of Origin: unknown

The form, which must be like the "master file" Casey speaks of, has three sections A (complete bagpipes) B (bagpipe parts) C (practice chanters).