Bonny Prince Charlie.....flute player ?

[kenny]

Saw an article in today's "Times" that Lyon & Turnbull's Auction house in Edinburgh are having a sale of Jacobite memorabilia next week, including an ivory flute, allegedly once belonging to Bonnie Prince Charlie. [ Estimate £4,000 - 6,000 ]
Never knew he played !
I'm in Edinburgh this weekend for the "FluteFling" and it's on display on Sunday - I'm really tempted to go and have a look at it.

See if this link works - if not, you can "Google" "Lyon & Turnbull" auctioneers, Edinburgh - it's item #48 on their sale next Wednesday.

http://auctions.lyonandturnbull.com/auc ... +/++178532

Kenny

[kenny]

Link seems to work OK.

[psychodonald]

Really an interesting piece of history. If a person were to win the bid and lived outside of the United Kingdom, I wonder what problems they might face returning to, say the United States, given that the flute is made of ivory? My guess is that the person would have a very interesting discussion with customs officials. Perhaps there wouldn't be a problem given the age and the provenance of the flute; however, I would certainly find out before bidding on the item that ranges between $6.000.00 to $9,000.00 (or more).

[iain beag]

I think Bonnie Prince Charlie may have been presented with various instruments whether he could play them or not.
Although he may well have played flute

I seem to remember there was a set of boxwood pipes in the Fort William Museum that reputedly belonged to him, again whether he played or not I don't know.

Don't think I'll be bidding on the flute.

Iain

[dunnp]

For some reason I have it in my head that he played an ivory musette de cour ?

[dunnp]

http://www.bagpipeworld.co.uk/gallery/m ... arlie.html

[Skinty]

There may be no evidence that it belonged to Bonnie Prince Charlie, but you do have to ask, who else could have been in possession of a flute like that in Scotland at the time? I bet not too many.

[kenny]

There was a large gathering of traditional flute players in Edinburgh this past weekend, [ thanks to all involved ], and a few of us went down to have a look at the flute on Sunday afternoon.
As it is, it is not in any way playable. Neither Niall Kenny nor I could get a note out of it, as it has long cracks down 2 sides of the headjoint. The middle sections are in better condition, the single key which should be on the foot-joint is absent.
I’m no expert on "Bonny" Prince Charlie, but as this was the first time I’d ever heard it suggested that he was a flute player, I was fairly skeptical, and the "provenance" of the instrument listed by the auctioneers didn’t seem all that convincing to me. I should say that the staff at Lyon & Turnbull were exceedingly friendly, and allowed us to have a good look at the flute, take some photographs, and even try playing it.
I also spoke on the phone to Mr. Colin Fraser of Lyon & Turnbull yesterday morning, and he is of the opinion that the provenance is strong.
And no, I won’t be bidding ! - but I do wait with interest to see what it sells for.

[kenny]

Just watched the auction live over the internet - sold for the upper estimate of £6.000.
The auctioneer did say at the start of the sale that no-one had been able to get a note out of it, and that several had tried !

[kenny]

Should have been a comma there, not a full-stop - sold for £6,000.

[kenny]

My last post on this, I promise. I usually present a folk/traditional music programme on Wednesday afternoons on local community radio, but couldn't go in today because of some kind of flu-like thing. We posted a photo of me holding the flute on our programme's "Facebook" page, if anyone wants to have a look at it.
Link below :

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Wedn ... e=bookmark

[Nanohedron]

Been following this with some interest. A shame that the flute doesn't work.

[psychodonald]

Was going to mention this earlier, but wasn't certain until I checked with my wife. About 14 years ago, while visiting Scotland, we took a trip over to the Isle of Skye. We visited the MacDonald home which had a small museum. At the time, I was more involved with Bagpipes and had little interest in flutes. However, I did see a flute that was made of Ivory that was said to have been owned by Bonny Prince Charlie; it was in one of the display cases. As my interest in flutes developed, I emailed the museum, about 2 to 3 years ago to inquire about that particular flute with the hope of getting some information about it and a picture. I did receive a reply and they stated that they had no knowledge of the flute. This past week, I asked my wife about the flute and she remembered it well. We had both admired the flute and she clearly recalled the flute as she was not aware that flutes had been made of Ivory. I do seem to recall that the head joint had a crack in it, couldn't see the other side as it was in a display case. To the best of my recollection, that flute had the Eb key in place and appeared in better condition than the one that was recently sold, at least that's the way I remembered it. Well, time plays a lot of tricks on memory; however, I did see an Ivory flute that was supposed to have been owned by Bonny Prince Charlie. I wonder if it was the same flute that was recently sold--perhaps he had been given, or somehow acquired, more than one flute???? At any rate, thought I would mention it, although it is neither here nor there in terms of any importance-- just a point of interest.

[kenny]

Thanks for the above. I might try to follow that up.
Point of this post is to make a correction. The £6,000 I quoted was the "hammer" price. By the time the "buyers premium" and possibly other costs were added in, the buyer paid £7,500.