3d printed small/parlour pipes w/ 2 octave chanter

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3d printed small/parlour pipes w/ 2 octave chanter

Post by brad maloney »

Not sure if this kind of thing is allowed on C&F, it's not my project - just spreading the word. He's also offering a whistle with a nice tone. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/18 ... g-3d/posts
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Re: 3d printed small/parlour pipes w/ 2 octave chanter

Post by MTGuru »

Let's just consider this as pointing out an interesting project because of the 3D printing aspect, and not necessarily suggesting donations. - Moderator
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Re: 3d printed small/parlour pipes w/ 2 octave chanter

Post by CHasR »

what's even more interesting than the 3d aspect; is how he intends to get a 2 octave range on a SSP with no keys, available in every tonality, and matched to the volume level of an acoustic guitar.

now, THAT...would be a miracle :D


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Re: 3d printed small/parlour pipes w/ 2 octave chanter

Post by Driftwood »

CHasR wrote:what's even more interesting than the 3d aspect; is how he intends to get a 2 octave range on a SSP with no keys,
Well, eight fingers and two thumbs equals 11 possible notes (I've experimented with this myself). After that the chanter could overblow to the twelfth and then on up to the top of the second octave.

The 3D printing idea is interesting but really a separate issue and I guess most of us still believe a wooden pipe sounds better than a plastic one.
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Re: 3d printed small/parlour pipes w/ 2 octave chanter

Post by highland-piper »

Driftwood wrote:
CHasR wrote:what's even more interesting than the 3d aspect; is how he intends to get a 2 octave range on a SSP with no keys,
Well, eight fingers and two thumbs equals 11 possible notes (I've experimented with this myself). After that the chanter could overblow to the twelfth and then on up to the top of the second octave.
A smallpipe chanter that could overblow would be something new. Even without any chromatic notes, I'd buy a chanter that could overblow.

Regarding the plastic vs. wood, in Highland piping, plastic chanters are universally accepted. Maybe we still believe wood is better, for some reason, but plastic is definitely acceptable. Especially for something you can't get in wood. Like a chanter that plays two octaves!
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Re: 3d printed small/parlour pipes w/ 2 octave chanter

Post by Peter Duggan »

highland-piper wrote:A smallpipe chanter that could overblow would be something new.
Nope, been done (Callum Armstrong's been overblowing his Julian Goodacre chanter for a while now)!
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Re: 3d printed small/parlour pipes w/ 2 octave chanter

Post by CHasR »

Peter Duggan wrote: Nope, been done (Callum Armstrong's been overblowing his Julian Goodacre chanter for a while now)!
But, isnt this only up to the 4th above the standard high note"( "d" above the back hole, high "a", for ex?) Or am i simply out of the smallpipes loop? If theres one person who could truly nail down a 2 octave chanter, it'd be Julian Goodacre.
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Re: 3d printed small/parlour pipes w/ 2 octave chanter

Post by Peter Duggan »

Two-and-half octaves, but Julian didn't even develop the chanter specially (though it does have some keys which help). There are articles by Julian and Callum about it in the June 2012 Common Stock (LBPS journal) and I've heard him do it.

Whether the high notes are genuinely useful or more of a party trick is another debate, but Callum at least composes for them and uses them in his performances.
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Re: 3d printed small/parlour pipes w/ 2 octave chanter

Post by donaldlindsay »

Hi folks,

glad you found this interesting! I'm aware of Calum Armstrong's experiments with Julian Goodacre's chanters. This design has been a bit more of a 'slow burner', I've been working on it for I suppose about 15 years, ever since I remember first musing over the possibilities of the "8 fingers 2 thumbs" possibility described further up this thread.

If the mod has any concern about this thread, I should point out that I've been working on this design strictly as a piper, not a maker. It's doubtful whether I'd be 'marketing' this chanter as such. I'd like the design to be in the public domain, I basically just want to play the thing, and would be pleased to see other pipers playing it too!

I respect what Calum Armstrong's doing, and have enjoyed listening to some of his experiments, however the task I set myself in working on this chanter was to extend the range in a way that was sympathetic to the way pipers play, that left the original scale of the instrument intact 'as-is', that didn't use keywork, and that extended the scale in the way that would be most 'useful' to me as a piper wanting to play Scottish and Irish traditional music (i.e. the fiddle music I grew up listening to my brother play but couldn't play on the pipes!). So, a scale from low 'D', up through the existing chanter scale, to high 'b' (currently the only 'second register' note). It's involved some basic study in woodwind acoustics, and quite a bit of work initially with an Ultimaker, now with online services that use more accurate industrial printers.

I'm in correspondence with pipe makers at the moment hoping to explore the practicality of creating this design in wood, although that may take a while!

Glad this has been of interest to some of you

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Two octaves

Post by donaldlindsay »

I should add - the pipe is capable of more than two octaves, although I only really regard this as a useful range on the "D" chanter variant, which has an incredible range from low G up to high 'b' that isn't yet completely tamed!
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Re: 3d printed small/parlour pipes w/ 2 octave chanter

Post by MTGuru »

donaldlindsay wrote:If the mod has any concern about this thread, I should point out that I've been working on this design strictly as a piper, not a maker. It's doubtful whether I'd be 'marketing' this chanter as such. I'd like the design to be in the public domain, I basically just want to play the thing, and would be pleased to see other pipers playing it too!
Cheers, Donald. The issue is that our forum rules (CCCP #19) require pre-approval of charity solicitations, which would include Kickstarter. But since you're not asking for contributions here, there's no problem.

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Re: 3d printed small/parlour pipes w/ 2 octave chanter

Post by pancelticpiper »

highland-piper wrote:
A smallpipe chanter that could overblow would be something new. I'd buy a chanter that could overblow.
But of course with a cylindrical bore you have the same issue that clarinets and kavals have: a gap.

So an A smallpipe chanter would go:

G A B C# D E F# G A > d e f# g# a b c# d e

In other words, in the low register you have a chanter in the key of A, in the 2nd register you have a chanter in the key of E. It gives you a 2 1/2 octave range but missing notes in between.

You'd have to have keys for the missing b and c#. This work could well be shared, as on the clarinet, say, a key for a note below Low G for Low F#/high c#, and a key above High A for High B, viz

(F#) G A B C# D E F# G A (B) > (c#) d e f# g# a b c# d e

Just as on clarinet you have that awkward leap over the registers, where you're playing High B on a key way up there, and the next note up is C# done with all the fingers down and a low key depressed.

Or you could have both keys below Low G, that is, keys for Low F# and Low E which overblow to give High b and High c#, viz

(E F#) G A B C# D E F# G A > (b c#) d e f# g# a b c# d e

which might be easier, going from High A to Low E/ high b having two keys depressed down below Low G.

It's quite feasible, clarinets have been doing it for hundreds of years.

You'd probably need a register key, too, to have the 2nd register speak reliably and clearly.

There's a great kaval maker, Alex Eppler, who added keys to fill in that gap on the kaval (more keys because the kaval is chromatic).
Last edited by pancelticpiper on Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 3d printed small/parlour pipes w/ 2 octave chanter

Post by donaldlindsay »

@pancelticpiper

Absolutely right!

And yet… it doesn't use keys, and plays from D below the stave, up through the existing pipe scale (unchanged), to a high 'b'.

If that's kittling your brain-box, don't worry! I'm going to post videos shortly on the Kickstarter page that show the chanter playing with other instruments.

Any tunes you'd like to hear played on a Scottish Smallpipe like that? I'm happy to play requests!

All the best

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Re: 3d printed small/parlour pipes w/ 2 octave chanter

Post by pancelticpiper »

donaldlindsay wrote:
And yet… it doesn't use keys, and plays from D below the stave, up through the existing pipe scale (unchanged), to a high 'b'.

If that's kittling your brain-box...
Certainly keys wouldn't be necessary, because there's two missing notes, and two digits that Highland pipers don't use currently!

Which is what the original 'Brian Boru' chanter did, reassign digits to gain more range.

In any case you've got B and C# missing and they have to be produced somehow, either with extra fingerholes or with keys.
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Re: 3d printed small/parlour pipes w/ 2 octave chanter

Post by donaldlindsay »

That's right!

My feeling is, and I don't know if pipers would generally agree with this, is that, as ingenious as Henry Starck's work undoubtedly was, the failure of the Brian Boru to gain widespread acceptance amongst pipers was at least partly due to the design having disturbed the arrangement of the basic scale.

Mind you it's comparing apples with oranges, as this design would be unlikely to work on a conical chanter.

On the didgeridoo, I understand some players are able to flatten the 'toot' note incrementally, by adding restrictions or making the instrument slightly conical. There seems to be a 'grey area' between "cylindrical" and "conical" pipes, which are over-simplified definitions anyway.
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