GHB Questions

Dominic Allan · Post by **Dominic Allan** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:05 am

Hi,
I'm trying to track down a bag pattern for the GHB and I'm not having much luck.
I could take an educated guess but, it's a lot of work to find out that I've not got it quite right.
Even a photograph of a bag minus drones etc with something to help with scale would help.
Also, is this type of bagpipe intended to play at A440 or some other pitch?

pancelticpiper · Post by **pancelticpiper** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:58 am

Try going to Andrew Lentz's bagpipe pages. He has comparitive measurements of a lot of different brands of Highland bagpipe bags.
About the pitch of Highland pipes, 30 years ago they played in the key of Concert B flat, the tonic at 466 cycles. Since then the pitch has steadily risen and the standard pitch today has settled in at around 480 cycles, in other words, roughly halfway between B flat and B natural on the piano. However the music is still written as if the pipes play in A.
Today some makers offer Highland pipe chanters at a variety of different keys/pitches, concert A at 440 cycles, concert B flat at 466 cycles, and the modern pitch of 480 cycles. Highland pipers almost always refer to a chanter's pitch by the actual cycles, calling a chanter in concert B flat a "466 chanter".
There has been a huge revival recently of the old Lowland pipes, which were bellows blown and had the drones in a common stock. In this revival, however, the name has changed from the 18th century label "Lowland pipes" to the 21st century label "Border pipes". These are usuall in A (440 cycles).
Highland pipemakers in the 19th century routinely made pipes in three sizes which they called
1) Great Highland or Military bagpipe
2) Half-size or Lovat Reel pipes (actually around 7/8 size, what people today call 3/4 size pipes)
3) Miniature or Chamber pipes (what people today call "smallpipes").
I have all three, here is a photo of them:

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:58 am

Below is a photo of the cream of the crop in pipe bags, the Begg sheepskin bag. The dimensions for the large bag (in the photo) are 30"X12" (the website says 30'X12' but we should avoid any errors of Spinal Tap proportions). There are some other photos and measurements on BeggBagpipes.com. The photo shows two neck styles, swan and straight. The swan neck angles the chanter comfortably but the creases pose a significant leaking risk. The other important factor is the size of the neck. Stock diameters do vary from make to make so finding a good average is key.

lauriebeck · Post by **lauriebeck** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:05 pm

I have a drawing I can send. I tried to PM you with my email but doesn't seem to be leaving the outbox?

Alec

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lauriebeck · Post by **lauriebeck** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:05 pm

I have a drawing I can send. I tried to PM you with my email but doesn't seem to be leaving the outbox?

Alec

[/img]

Dominic Allan · Post by **Dominic Allan** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:13 pm

Thankyou to everyone for your help,
I think I have a lot more questions to ask , but I'll wait until I have more time on my hands.
lauriebeck, I got your PM and I'll get in touch regarding your pattern.
Happy new year!
Dom.

Dominic Allan · Post by **Dominic Allan** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:44 am

I've just made a paper pattern from Laurieck's bag plan and noticed something interesting.
It's almost identical to the bag that I use for my border pipes.
I arrived at the shape by a mixture of educated guess and costomer feedback - thus re-inventing the wheel!
The layout of the stocks is the bit I wouldn't have got on my own.
Thankyou again,
Dom.

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:07 am

I'm not surprised that a GHB bag tmeplate is similar to a border pipe. The main difference there is the opening for the chanter stock which will be much larger on a GHB.

There are different recipes for marking the stocks. They all usually start with folding the bag in half and then opinions differ from that point.

One bag maker has this fact sheet. The recipe I learned involves another fold for the blowpipe stock which I think is better than a prescribed measurement because folding is more proportionate to the bag size.

Are there any recipes for marking stocks on bellows-pipe bags?

Dominic Allan · Post by **Dominic Allan** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:07 am

The neck diameter is slightly wider and the overall depth of the bag is greater.
As for the position ofv the blowpipe stock on my borderpipes, it sits near the seam directly under the drone stock. The position isn't that crucial as there is a flexible hose between bag and bellows.
One more question : what is the cheapest Highland bagpipe that's worth buying?

Key_of_D · Post by **Key_of_D** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:33 am

Pretty interesting stuff there Pancelticpiper. I didn't know so many variations of the highland pipe existed. What was/is the purpose and differences between the 3 sizes?

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:33 pm

Dominic Allan wrote:One more question : what is the cheapest Highland bagpipe that's worth buying?

Just perusing websites it looks like the no-frills model of Strathmore pipes is the best bargain. At £498 they are one of the lowest priced and they are of the best quality.

pancelticpiper · Post by **pancelticpiper** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:22 am

Dominic Allan wrote: what is the cheapest Highland bagpipe that's worth buying?

There are, up on Ebay right now, a number of new sets from respected Scottish makers going for extremely reasonable prices.
It's AMAZING to me how often people pay $300 to $500 or more for junk Pakistani Highland pipes on Ebay, when for the same amount they can get a real instrument made by a respected Scottish craftsman.
The makers are Ian Murray and Douglas MacPherson.
You can go to Scotland On TV for a video featurette where they go to Douglass MacPherson's workshop and discuss his pipemaking and his philosophy toward it. No factory-produced stuff here, just a craftsman working on his own making great instruments.
About the three sizes of Highland pipes, they were made so as to be able to play at three different levels of volume, as the Highland pipes lack dynamics.

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:13 pm

If you are interested in buying a decent set of GHB, talk to your instructor first. He may know of someone locally selling a good set. He may have some ideas of what to look for. He will probably tell you that any Scottish make (and most Canadian or US) will be fine.

It is sometimes possible to make a Pakistani pipe work, but it takes money and effort that should be spent elsewhere. And you still end up with a mediocre bagpipe. Stay away from the Pakistani pipes unless you know what you are doing with them and don't mind risking the price.

I have two sets of GHB. My dad's old MacLeod pipes sound lovely, have the classic pumpkin mounts (early versions of synthetic ivory turned orange over time), and are sort of hard to tune. The strong overtones make it a little hard to hear the fundamental come into tune. My wife recently bought me a set of McCallums and I love them. They are a fine bargain if that's what you are looking for, as I have seen a basic set (the AB0 model) for as little as $850 all set up and reeded. I think that's about 425 pounds sterling.

If you are not taking lessons, I strongly urge you to at least borrow a set from someone for an hour before you decide to drop that kind of money on an instrument that can be rather daunting to learn. My experience is that the smallpipes don't really make it any easier to transition to the full-sized highland pipes. The concepts are there, but the intensity is hard to really understand without trying it yourself.

-Patrick

pancelticpiper · Post by **pancelticpiper** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:23 am

I second McCallums. They are very good-sounding pipes at a reasonable price. Their customer service has an excellent reputation.
But for less you can sometimes get more.
For example there's a set of Tweedie pipes on Ebay right now going for $550.
Never heard of Tweedie? Time to do a bit of research.
There are three Ian Murray sets at $850 and $750.
There's a fantastic old set currently at less than $600. There's a 90% chance that those old drones sound better than anything made today. Some cracks in the ivory- so what? You get pipes to play, not to look at.
A Duncan Soutar for $850.
A Shepherd (not my favourites but hey- they are Scottish made) for $700.
A Kintail (ditto) for $500.
Two Kilberrys for around $300.
Anybody would be crazy to even consider Pakistani pipes when values like these are to be found all the time.