A good Breton question:

[CHasR]

Does anyone know; if there is a certain, trad, set formula for orchestrating the antiphonal/responsorial pairing of Bombarde + Biniou?
For instance:
(Biniou solo plain text; biniou + bombarde together bold text)

AA, BB, A'B', AB,C ?

or is it entirely up to the individual demands of the tune + artistry of the players

[Yuri]

Can't answer that one, but I have a question, too. Is there anything like that in zampogna-chiaramella music, too, or is it always zmpogna- background, chiaramella- melody?

[CHasR]

As far as I know, there's no 'set-in-stone' formula for the trad material; The tempi + agogics are standard of course(Tarantella, Saltarellos, Siciliana etc), but there are plenty of zampogna-only melodies.

My Ciaramellist + I trade the melody around when possible, but it depends on what the tune wants. There's no shortage of very interesting + inventive 'part-playing' for the Z+C pair.

Whereas, in strict trad Biniou + Bombarde, there always seems to be a set pattern of who cadences the old period + who introduces the next phrase. Its got an internal logic which seems uncontrived to the players.

One would think; in the 2 regions where paired oboe+ pipe playing is common, there'd be more similarities; I dont hear them; The Italian music seems more diatonic, + the Breton tends to modality.
Guess there's no Bretons on the forum....am I wrong?

[AaronMalcomb]

I'll caveat that my experience is very limited but my recollection of sonneurs couples is that it usually goes AA, BB etc. with the bombarde trailing its last note of the A line then coming back in on the pick up notes to the B part. Obviously they don't adhere too strictly to that pattern or it would get very repetitive.

Yec'hed mat!

[wgority]

Darn.....too late to be the first responder! I've gotta check in here more often! But anyhoooo.....my experiences and listening jibe with Aaron's comments above.

A-Part
Unison, repeat,
Biniou, repeat,
B-Part
Unison, repeat,
Biniou, repeat,
Etc.

The blending note(s) mentioned by Aaron which are played as the bombarde re-enters is a great rhythmic device which reinforces the melody.

An alternate approach that I like is to have the bombarde enter a couple notes (sometimes up to a measure) early playing a brief harmony line that joins the unison line with the biniou when the repeat truly begins. I've heard recordings by Forzh Penaos where they use this technique to great effect.

Whadaya think Charlie, should we do a Breton session at Killington this year? (Even if we are forced to do it outside by the wooses saying "binious and bombardes are too loooooooooud!"?) Maybe we can get the bar to stock some cider......... Aaron, you should come!

kenavo ar c'hentañ
Bill

[CHasR]

mm-hmm: so the Bombarde takes the lead, + introduces all the new motifs, is what I was getting at.

I'm putting up some of the Kevrenn Alre Bagad overnite after their 7pm 3/20/07 concert (at Duffy's catering on Lancaster Ave, in Berwyn PA, www.bzh-ny.org ), so if they're talkative I wanna pry some more info from them.

Doubt they'll be in a playing mood ( I certainly wouldnt be after a gig), but Im hoping~!

We tried to have a Breton micro-session at Lois's this past summer, but location was....let's say....really an issue....

[wgority]

We tried to have a Breton micro-session at Lois's this past summer, but location was....let's say....really an issue....

If I recall arightly, the weather didn't help either............

[AaronMalcomb]

Doubt they'll be in a playing mood ( I certainly wouldnt be after a gig), but Im hoping~!

Granted, I've only been to a couple festoú noz, but my experience is that you'll have a hard time keeping folks from not playing, even after a gig.

Whadaya think Charlie, should we do a Breton session at Killington this year? (Even if we are forced to do it outside by the wooses saying "binious and bombardes are too loooooooooud!"?) Maybe we can get the bar to stock some cider......... Aaron, you should come!

I'd like to go to Killington some time. I'll see if this year is a possibility. I'll be saving up for a trip to NZ next year so it'll depend.

[phcook]

You're wrong, Chas, there are several Bretons here.

Aaron, who is a fine Breton music player, is right.

Breton music played with biniou and bombarde is most of time dance music.

So you need first to know whay kind of dance you're playing. Then, as the biniou has a bag, the melody is played continuously, while the bombarde plays the first part of theme (often 8 beats) and take a breath during the repetition by the biniou alone.

For instance, let see a gavotte.

The "ton simple" consists in a first phrase A, 8 beats, and a second one A', 8 beats, which sightly differs from A. Ir's played as follow:

A couple
A biniou
A' couple
A' biniou

then you play it again, and chain with another "ton simple".

Best regards

[CHasR]

You're wrong, Chas, there are several Bretons here.

Aaron, who is a fine Breton music player, is right.

Best regards

Yes, I was hoping to draw out those who know...

& That's exactly what I had wanted to confirm;
that the bombarde plays the 'lead' + BiniouKoz the 'echo', not vice-versa.
THANKS ALL