thinking about first set of pipes

[justajoe]

hello again all, the newbie guy is back pecking for more info.....

i was thinking of purchasing my first set of GHPs. i am sure that there are a hundred questions i could ask about my investment, however, i am going to start with .. how do i know what size bag to get?

[Lexxicos]

Do you have a practice chanter and know how to play? I would highly recommend you purchase a practice chanter first, as well as a tutorbook, and find an instructor to teach you. Only after about 7 months to a year of learning the notes and embellishments can you begin to move onto the Pipes. Trust, it'd be impossible to learn on straight GHB.

[AaronMalcomb]

Echo all of the above tenfold, especially seeking instruction. The obtsacle of teaching yourself Highland piping far outweighs the satisfaction gained from doing something on your own. The culture piping comes from observes that, if you are going to take on this kind endeavor, you should do it right and with dedication or don't bother.

If you want to play like Gordon Duncan, Mark Saul or Fred Morrison, they learned the traditional way and played "by the rules" before breaking them.

By your location you are not isolated. If you don't have an instructor, find one and be prepared to work hard to remedy any bad habits and then move on to expand your repertoire of technique and tunes and some basic musical skills. When this instructor feels your ready, he/she will set you up on your first bagpipe, including getting the right size bag. Patience will be your most valuable resource.

Given your location you may have to spend a bit of time on the ferry, train or subway to get to your lessons but that's where the dedication and patience come in. If you really want to play the Highland bagpipe well, you won't mind. If that is a major drawback for you it may not be the right time for you.

[justajoe]

Do you have a practice chanter and know how to play? I would highly recommend you purchase a practice chanter first, as well as a tutorbook, and find an instructor to teach you. Only after about 7 months to a year of learning the notes and embellishments can you begin to move onto the Pipes. Trust, it'd be impossible to learn on straight GHB.

A big THANK YOU for your concern, however, I have ITCHY FINGERS (no pun heh). I could see how someone wanting to play would just go out and buy pipes thinking they will be on the street by St. Patrick's day... and shame on the music shop for selling them. I do, whole heartedly, promise you i am not on that track.

After my last mssg (dont shoot the noobie)and your (you were very helpful Lexxicos) advice, I picked up the GHB chanter and College Of Piping "Green Book". I have the notes and basic embellishments down cold on the practice chanter and on an electronic chanter (score on ebay) with head phones (while the baby is sleeping), as well as a few basic tunes down almost perfect.

After a few hours of playing and my eyes are bloodshot and knuckles sore, I like to surf past bagpipe websites (i think that qualifies as an obsession). Most makers have a lead time of 2 months, so i am just trying to get my ducks in a row.

From what i see, the price goes up as you add more decoration to the pipes. The makers don't go into the different materials used for the bags (although synthetic seems the way for me... sorry trad fans) and drones \ chanter, but they are quick to show pics of silver engraved doo-hickeys and fake ivory what-cha-ma-call-its.

I bookmarked McCallum and Shepherd. I like the fact that McCallum offers a guarantee. If there are others I should be drooling over please let me know.

So i'm back on Chiff and Fipple. The place I found a few years ago when I fell in love with the penny whislte, asking the dopey questions again. thanks for reading. I will go find a pipe band now.

joe.

[Lexxicos]

So you do have an instructor then? Books are good to pick up the basics of Pipe Fingering and notes, but there are some embellishments that have to be heard to know what they sound like, and their place in a tune. I mean, I don't want to dishearten you at all, but those few basic tunes you have down "Almost perfect" may not be once you play them for a teacher.

For instance, your doublings may be early. They must start on the beat, as in that first g-gracenote must begin when your foot hits the ground, never before. Same for the birls and strikes. Your taorluaths must also have a clear rhythm, and your grips crisp, and you should be able to play arpeggios and scale excercises with no crossing noises.

If I remember correctly, it took me about 4 months to get on the pipes with lessons every week and practicing everyday. Again, I am by no means trying to dishearten you, but I doubt you, after only one month on a chanter with just a book and no instructor, are ready to move onto the pipes.

It's very, *very* good that you bought a practice chanter and book, but like you said, find a local pipe band and instructor who can teach you and assess your progress before you make such an investment. You may find that the discipline and rigor present in GHB music to be a little over the top, and in that case you'll be glad you still have your $1200. You may also find that you love it yet despite, and in that case, more power to you. Practice, practice, practice, and when your instructor says that you are ready, then, and only then, should you purchase and begin to tackle the pipes.

[The Sporting Pitchfork]

Yes! Yes! YES!

Heed Lexxicos' wise words. Verily, verily I say unto you, there is no other instrument in the world where learning with an experienced, well-qualified instructor is more necessary. There are plenty of good whistle players who learned on their own, occasionally a decent fiddle player, and there have been a tiny handful of good uilleann pipers that learned on their own as well (though just about all of them came to the uilleann pipes already well trained on another instrument like the flute or GHBs). I have been playing highland pipes for a relatively short time--about 12 years--and in that time I have NEVER heard anybody who was self taught that had any business wielding such a loud, potentially wretched sounding instrument. A number of these people had no idea they sounded so excruciatingly bad. Some of them even bragged that they had never had a lesson in their lives. I generally am very much against the death penalty, but for the sonic terrorism some of these people perpetrated, they deserved to be hanged.

Get on the internet, look around for qualified instructors there, find friends of friends of friends that play bagpipes and ask them if they know anybody. Find a qualified instructor NOW.

Shop around a bit--there are bound to be more than a few pipers relatively close by. Don't take lessons from some strange dude that really likes to wrap himself up in nine yards of wool for the local Renn Fayre but only can play a handful of tunes and wouldn't know a birl if he were molested by one. Try to find a teacher who's been playing for a good long while and preferably someone who has had some success in solo and/or pipe band competitions--I'm talkin' solo Grade 1 here--regardless of whether you have any interest in doing any piping competitions later on down the road yourself. You don't want somebody that will verbally abuse you into the ground if your tachems are a bit sloppy (trust me, I've seen it happen...And from a world-renowned piper, nonetheless...Tremendous ceòl mór player, but don't send your kid to him for lessons unless their emotional well-being is iron-clad), but you do want somebody that knows the playing technique of the instrument backwards and forwards and will be willing to spend a great deal of time and effort trying to impart that knowledge to you and give you feedback and constructive criticism on how to improve your playing.

It doesn't matter whether your goal is to play a few cheesy tunes like Amazing Grace on the back deck or if you really want to seriously tackle the traditional repertoire: if you're going to take up the bagpipes, you owe it to yourself and any people within earshot to do things right. Find a teacher, start taking lessons on the practice chanter, and after a while (4 months, 7 months, a year, perhaps much longer)--once the instructor feels that you are ready, he will tell you that you can get a set of pipes and also probably give you a lot of helpful advice on what kind of pipes to get.

Now get to it!

[AaronMalcomb]

From what i see, the price goes up as you add more decoration to the pipes. The makers don't go into the different materials used for the bags (although synthetic seems the way for me... sorry trad fans

Tradition aside, the drawback to synthetic bags is that, while airtight and easy to maintain, the actual material is not very thick. The benefit of leather is its thickness. The thickness lends to greater response to arm pressure which means stable tone. And it's really not too difficult to maintain and can be one of the enjoyable quirks of the instrument. For a beginner I'd recommend an L&M or a Gannaway. There are tonal benefits to leather but stability is the main goal with a new piper.

I bookmarked McCallum and Shepherd. I like the fact that McCallum offers a guarantee. If there are others I should be drooling over please let me know.

McCallum and Shepherd are very reputable. Personally I preferr Naill. If you want a good, no-frills instrument you could look into the Bowen Classic "Standard" Bagpipe. Another maker,MacLellelan Bagpipes, probably offers the most distinctive and wide array or pipes around.

[justajoe]

We are talking about trad music right? The same music that my pacifier was dipped in as a toddler, the same music that comes out of my arm if I get cut, the same music that was in my grandfather's head as he was shoved into the grave he just dug.

I appreciate your concern for my (and my neighbor's) best interests and please don’t take this personally, but you guys are geeking out.

Im in my 30s I have a house 3 cars a wife kids and a dog. I live in a big city. I have a blue collar job that the mayor seems to think i should be doing for free until its his place thats on fire. I sit in my local bar on Thursday nights. My name is justajoe. There is NO way on God's great earth that I am going to end up in a competition.
personally, i feel that all of this "readily available information" is killing traditional music and im at the point where i may delete this chip and bipple off my pc... and recommend you do the same.

in the words of my mentor - you are taking art and turning it into science ! and he is right

Thank you Aaron for your help. I was looking at MacLellan's antique set, I don’t know how it would hold up in the rain though. What do you think?

joe.

[The Sporting Pitchfork]

Yes, we are totally geeking out...But that doesn't mean you shouldn't find a teacher.

[AaronMalcomb]

I'm glad I could help, Joe.

I am concerned by your reaction to some of our posts. I saw no art-reducing statements, just very cautious advice. I'm not quite sure where your reaction came from. I would imagine that our comments are out of experience and goodwill towards your piping.

As for competition, that is merely the arena where a piper's craft is refined. There are revisionists that choses to ignore the last 200 years of piping but the truth is that piping has thrived in competition for much of that time. One might even call competition traditional.

You're obviously free to participate in the tradition any way you want. You don't ever have to step foot onto the boards or into the circle of competition. It's a mixed bag. I've met some pipers through competition I'd rather forget and others that will be friends for life. Some days it's fun, some days you wonder why you bother (but not for long).

As for MacLellan Antique bagpipes' weatherworthiness, they should be as sturdy as any. The wood will be treated and finished, the mounts are made of a polymer and the bronze ferrules will just need regular polishing. If a bagpipe gets caught in the rain, just disassemble it and let it dry.

[Celtic983]

I just wanted to chime in. I too am a noob to piping. I have been playing about 7 months now. I am one too that believes in broading the horizon of traditional music. I too have listened and played trad music all my life.Also, I am one that the basics of playing the pipes have come pretty easily. I too get tired of the "my way is the only way" attitude sometimes exhibited on the board.
That said, I have to agree with what has been stated. Your playing will get better at a faster rate if you have an instructor. As a beginner, there is just too much going on for one to really listen to everything at once (although this comes) For example, Did i get 2 clear low gs in my d throw, did I just play a b grip...or a b doubling, are my drones steady, is my high A really in tune? This is one reason why an instructor is so nessesary. I am a huge admire of Duncan, Armstrong ect . They are the reason I have gotten into piping. But there is a reason why pipers start of with tunes like Scots Wha Hae and play marches and in general, stiffer tunes. The music can only be expressed with finger movements. This is why the timing of the gracenotes, birls, d throws, grips ect ect are so important. If you can't play them on the easy tunes in the right place at the right time then you can't play them in the fast ones. Even some competent players who have been playing for years don't have a good grasp on the different movement's timing. When heard side by side with someone who has this ingrained from practicing it from the start, it is very apparant whom is the better playing. However, with piping, the more you know about piping, the more you realize how little you really know. If you don't want to compete...that is definately ok. However, if you get an instructor and get a firm base, you will be much happier with your playing in the long run. As far as pipes, I really recommend McCallum bagpipes. The drones are super easy to strike in and have a nice balanced tone. Nicely priced too. Hope this information helps.

[NecroKitty]

Ditto on the quality of McCallum bagpipes. Their customer service is excellent too; I have three students who play them.

(No I don't work for them and I play an old set of Hendersons myself)

[Lexxicos]

We are talking about trad music right? The same music that my pacifier was dipped in as a toddler, the same music that comes out of my arm if I get cut, the same music that was in my grandfather's head as he was shoved into the grave he just dug.

I appreciate your concern for my (and my neighbor's) best interests and please don’t take this personally, but you guys are geeking out.

Im in my 30s I have a house 3 cars a wife kids and a dog. I live in a big city. I have a blue collar job that the mayor seems to think i should be doing for free until its his place thats on fire. I sit in my local bar on Thursday nights. My name is justajoe. There is NO way on God's great earth that I am going to end up in a competition.
personally, i feel that all of this "readily available information" is killing traditional music and im at the point where i may delete this chip and bipple off my pc... and recommend you do the same.

in the words of my mentor - you are taking art and turning it into science ! and he is right

To answer your first question, yes we are talking about traditional music, however, not Irish traditional music, not Romanian traditional music, not even Scottish traditional music. We're talking about the traditional music of the Great Highland Bagpipe, which because of restricted scale, high demand for physical endurance, finger dexterity, and critical listening skills, demands the need for an instructor.

Traditionally, the Great Highland Bagpipes have always been taught from one, to another, never on your own. I love traditional music too Joe, but with all due respect, Irish traditional music and that of the GHB are completely different. As in, not the same tradition. You simply can't expect the same amount of reward for going at the GHB alone as you can a whistle.

As for Science killing an Art, I believe you're looking at it from the wrong viewpoint. Would you enjoy looking at Michelangelo's sculptures and paintings as much if he had not recieved formal training? No. I have it on good authority that what he did requires so much formal skill and experience, that not having that training would make for a horrible sculpture. A horrible piece of artwork.

Now, think of the countless scientists and mathematicians in the world today, who have had, as you state, scientific training that demands skill and rigor from another trained professional. Do you think they still do science because they enjoy crunching data? Do you think mathematicians still turn coffee into proofs because they enjoy making it easier for future mathematicians? Chances are, both do what they do because they find the result beautiful. They find it a representation of outer truth through a human medium. They find it art.

Now, I'm not saying you have to compete to be a worthy piper, by no means. I'm just asking you to take some pride in the tradition you are trying to learn. Assuming that the skill required to play this magnificent instrument is low enough to go it alone is not only an insult to those of us who've put in countless hours with it just to become acceptable, but is an insult to the instrument and the tradition itself.

[Wormdiet]

And for God's sake. .. if nothing else, learn to TUNE the drones. DO NOT glue them in place once they are in tune. (There is an urban legend floating around that some bands actually do this)

I am convinced that many people hate GHB because many players don;t play them competently and in tune.

Getting good, one-on-one instruction from a competent teacher will improve your skills as a *musician* on any instrument. A good teacher will tell you how to listen to yourself and assess yourself realistically.

[justajoe]

ok ive got an instructor... the math as art bit got me

(you bunch of geeks )

joe