Hi All,

Does anyone have experience with these? I was at a workshop at the weekend with a table full of these made by Matthias Branschke and they seemed an instrument quite well suited to playing with others. Volume, range and ease of playing. Obviously the repertoire and keys are decided by the limitations of the instrument, but they seem to offer fairly good possibilities for ensemble/session playing. Obviously not the Irish stuff though a fair bit of Scottish repertoire could be played on them, only a tone lower, in G.

I played some of the sets for a while in the cellar and found it quite intuitive for a Scottish piper, though the overblown notes were new. And I played with a number of other people using them (me on flute, others on fiddle etc.), so now I am in the well-understood situation of flirting with the idea of possibly buying another instrument...

Questions:

1. I was obviously looking at Matthias' instruments and the name Torsten Tetz was also mentioned. Is there anyone else that I really should be looking at before I decided on a purchase? (I am in Hamburg, so the German makers are probably my starting point.)
2. I could go mouth blown or I could get the bellows pipe made to fit my existing bellows (from SSP). How much difference do the bellows make with these pipes? The reeds are plastic. Worth sacrificing the simplicity of a smallish mouth blown instrument?
3. There is an introductory instrument made by both of those makers which is mouth blown with one bass drone, chanter and bag - they are quite a lot cheaper than 2 drone or even more complex pipes, and do not support the options of keys. But, they could well be a good idea for getting started? Again, any experiences?
4. Torsten Tetz offers rentals of his student model - this at the moment is probably where I would start if I go down this road.
5. How maintenance intensive are they? Several of the players I spoke to never seemed to touch or even look at their chanter reeds and expected to send the pipes back to the maker for overhaul/retuning every couple of years. Does that work? I did not notice many gross tuning problems with any of those I heard being played, though I was only playing with a couple of players myself.

Thanks for your comments,

Chris.

Finally, does anyone know where the commonly used used instrument exchanges for these might be found?

_________________
19th October, 2012:
Flute: Rookery
Flute: Musical Priest
Flute: Swinging on the Gate
Flute: Sally Gardens
4th June 2012:
Flute: Rolling in the Ryegrass, Green Gates
2 April, 2012:
Smallpipes: The Meeting of the Waters. Corn Riggs
Smallpipes: Mrs Hamilton of Pithcaithland

Hi,

I have a little experience.

Cornemuse du midi I believe simply means Bagpipe in French, France has many different kinds of bagpipes around the country. I've had a go at two sets, both had two thumb holes and a lot of cross fingering making around 18+ different notes. one was closed fingering and the other open. Very beautiful sounding instrument but also very complicated to play compared to the Highland Bagpipes.

Germany has a number of bagpipes, Marktsack which are a set of Great Pipes and very loud, the Schäferpfeife which are medium sized and the Hummelchen which are small pipes. Germans tend to put recorder fingering on their bagpipes which makes them very versatile. Usually, they come in one of two combinations. Single thumb hole in which produces 11 notes, basically all the modes except the Mixolydian are achievable as well as the harmonic and melodic minors (pretty good for only 11 notes), but the main scale is the Dorian. The second thumb hole option adds a twelfth note and changes the main scale to the major scale.

I've had a go at the Marktsack and the Hummelchen, but not the Schäferpfeife yet. The Hummelchen is very quiet and can be played with other instruments, it also costs 1/3 the price of the pipes you are looking at and could be a better option than an introductory or student set. I can recommend some makers if you like.

I learnt on the Highland Pipes but nowadays play the Medieval. I have no experience of bellows but all pipes are easier to blow than the Highland. I also have plastic reeds. The idea with plastic drone reeds is they need no maintenance whatsoever, the maker sets them up and you never touch them. I didn't find this my first drone stopped working after 4 months and I had to set it up again. Unlike wooden reeds it was so simple though, I'm never going back. Plastic chanter reeds seem no more efficient than wooden ones, their advantage lays in them being moisture resistant. They also need regular adjustment as the bridle will vibrate out of position.

_________________
Currently learning the Traditional Irish Didgeridoo

One more thing I forgot. The biggest difference I notice between rustic pipes and Highland ones is the tuning pins on the drones are made of wood. They are pretty tight and wood is an abrasive material so when in place it's hard to move them. This means when you tune it's a little more difficult and you have to jerkily twist the drones into tune, a little awkward. However once in tune they don't move, you can bang them, pack them, travel with them and sometimes up to a month later they are still in tune, just pick you pipes and play anytime. Also when they do go out of tune most of the time it a quick 1mm modification and they're back in tune. Whoever thought making these things out of metal was an improvement needs shooting.

_________________
Currently learning the Traditional Irish Didgeridoo

I have never heard of a cornemuse du midi - you probably mean cornemuse du centre (central French bagpipe).
Technically, cornemuse du centre and Schäferpfeife are more or less identical, only design and setup are different - Schäferpfeife has its two drones pointing forwards, while cornemuse has the bass drone over the shoulder and the tenor parallel to the chanter, in a common stock.
Most common pitch for both is G (in french called "16 pouces", which refers to the length of the chanter), the chanter giving a range of an octave plus one tone below and three overblown tones, so the overall range is from f to c'. Most semitones can be achieved by crossfingering.
Matthias Branschke and Torsten Tetz are among the best makers for Schäferpfeifen, they both learned from Andreas Rogge. Another name worth mentioning would be Bodo Schulz.
There are a good few makers in Holland and Belgium, Jan Soete, Frans Hattink and Paul Beekhuizen come into my mind, and of course Rémy Dubois, whose workshop is being continued by Olle Geris.
Among the French makers, Bernard Blanc, Sege Durin, Arnaud Guenzi are probably the most well-known ones. Last but by no means least, Jonathan Swayne and Alban Faust both make excellent instruments of that type.
If you choose the traditional mouth blown version or use the bellows-blown one is up to your own preference - I can't see any advantage or draw-back in either, no matter if you prefer plastic or cane reeds.
The cheaper student models offered by both Matthias and Torsten are fully playable instruments, the lower price results from simpler design and the omitment of the second drone, which also forgoes the necessity of a more complicated drone stock. No chanter keys (which are not traditional, anyway) means, F# and G# in the low octave are not playable - all other semitones are there, including high F# and G#.
As for maintenance - if you don't touch your reed, you won't break it... my own Schäferpfeife is the least maintenance intensive bagpipe of all I have.
For used instruments, you might have a look here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/sackpfeifenboerse/ or here: http://sackpfeifenclub.de/

As for ælfléoð's comments - Schäferpfeifen generally do not have recorder fingering, they have half-closed fingering, same as French cornemuse. The second thumb hole is for the minor third.
Dorian scale is the main scale of the Marktsack, not Schäferpfeife, and single thumb hole bagpipes can achieve a mixolydian scale as well - in fact, mixolydian seems to be the most widespread bagpipe scale of all. Hümmelchen is a totally different bagpipe altogether and is of no help as a starter instrument for Schäferpfeife.
The tuning pins of the Highland pipes are also wooden, metal sleeves are purely decorative, and like on any other bagpipe, there is a thread packing on the pin where it goes into the slide. If you have to jerkily twist the drone in tune, the threading is too tight, nothing else.

Thank you, both of you. I have negotiated an instrument rental from Matthias Branschke for one of his student instruments. That should give me time and opportunity to answer the most important question; will I play the thing or not? The rental instrument will be mouth blown with one drone over the shoulder. What, or if, I buy later remains open. The instrument still needs to be made, so we are talking about starting in March sometime...

The low maintenance also appeals to me since I have too many instruments and keeping some in playing condition with relatively little use can often make the difference of playing at all.

The links in Michaels Mail are also interesting. Thank you for those.

_________________
19th October, 2012:
Flute: Rookery
Flute: Musical Priest
Flute: Swinging on the Gate
Flute: Sally Gardens
4th June 2012:
Flute: Rolling in the Ryegrass, Green Gates
2 April, 2012:
Smallpipes: The Meeting of the Waters. Corn Riggs
Smallpipes: Mrs Hamilton of Pithcaithland

Well, did you play the thing?

I want to get one of these, but Sean Jones and Jon Swayne are backed up by a year! Excited to learn more about these other makers mentioned. I don't speak Dutch, so I'm curious if someone could recommend a 2-drone Flemish pipe in G; budget is around 1000 euro, plus or minus 200.

I've been looking at Jim Parr's site for this; seems like he makes unadorned, but affordable pipes. http://www.jimparr.co.uk/earlywoodwind/prices.shtml Anyone play these?

You might check out more local instrument makers (Pacific Northwest); Joel C. Robinson and Brad Angus.

Joel makes historical instruments, including Flemish bagpipes. Although I’ve not played his instruments, I’ve seen and heard them, and they are nice. His prices are with in your range. He’s located in Wilsonville Or. I don’t know what is wait time is. http://www.robinsonwoodwinds.com/prices.html

Although Brad makes Uilleann pipes, he has made other historic pipes also. You could ask him about it. I had him add a regulator to my pastoral pipe and he did a great job! https://bradanguspipes.myfreesites.net/gallery ~ https://www.facebook.com/anguspipes2016/

Wow! I had no idea there were local makers here! My concerns with Joel is that his stuff is really historical "recorder fingering." I'd prefer the "Pan-European" style fingering used by French and English border pipes used by most makers, because it gives 1.5 octaves. I'll send Brad an email later. Does anyone have experience with pipes made by Juraj Dufek? He's a slovakian guy who's been involved in the Bagpipe Society for a long time. Seems to be able to make an incredible diversity of different bagpipes.

How do you like your pastoral pipes, and who made them?

[/quote]Wow! I had no idea there were local makers here! My concerns with Joel is that his stuff is really historical "recorder fingering." I'd prefer the "Pan-European" style fingering used by French and English border pipes used by most makers, because it gives 1.5 octaves. I'll send Brad an email later. Does anyone have experience with pipes made by Juraj Dufek? He's a slovakian guy who's been involved in the Bagpipe Society for a long time. Seems to be able to make an incredible diversity of different bagpipes.

How do you like your pastoral pipes, and who made them?[/quote]

My set was made by Geert Lejeune from an original set of Pastoral Pipes made by Robertson of Edinburgh.[url](http://www.geertlejeune.com/bagpipes)[/url]. They are pitched in D. He also makes Flemish pipes.

For me, the Pastoral Pipe is a very fun and engaging instrument to play. With my pastoral pipes, I have the full two octaves. I play a whole range of music ~ reels & jigs, slow airs. waltzes, and a lot of O’Carolan. Many of the tunes have high As and high Bs, which are harder to play on a Border or Lowland pipe, if at all. The waltzes are often in keys that aren’t the friendliest to play, but are playable, for the most part.

One of the tunes I like, “Caislen An Oir,” goes from the low middle C to high Bb with F naturals. The range is similar to that of the uilleann pipes, but with the low C .
Here’s a picture
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2sbdQqItZUtWhDcw2

The fingering for the first octave is pretty much the same for the pastoral pipes as the Highland pipes, but for the second octave the fingering is open; so for most highland pipers, I would think the learning curve wouldn’t be very steep.

The Uilleann pipes have a different fingering, and you have to learn how to play off the knee. If you have played a wind instrument, the fingering probably won’t be too big of an issue.

I have a theory on the development of the union or Uilleann pipes. I had a regulator added to my set. I’d seen historic pictures of regulators on pastoral pipes so I thought it would be a nice addition. I’ve found that other than just adding a note or two to the melody and making a nice cord; the long foot joint makes it almost impossible to play the regulators the way you would with the Uilleann pipes.

In my opinion, once the regulators became common place, the foot joint was gone. Without the foot joint, you basically have a narrow bore Uilleann pipe, of course they have developed further, and are more complex now. Uilleann pipes have the ability to play open like a pastoral pipe or closed like the Northumberland pipes; and by playing off the knee, you have the ability to play staccato. For the pastoral pipe though, the foot joint gives a robust sound that some have compared to a baroque oboe.

One thing that they both share is the three drones in D. Something magical happens with the harmonics when they are all in sync.

What about your Lindsey system Pipes?

Nice! If ever I feel the need to play my full Irish repertoire on bagpipes, I'll probably head in the direction of the pastoral pipes. I much prefer their French-border-pipe-like sound to the tiresome yipping and burbling of the Uilleann pipes (unpopular opinion, I know, but Uilleann pipes were not originally a session instrument, whereas the Euro-border pipes were made to play with others!). For now, though, I'm happy playing mostly flute and transferring a few favorites to the pipes.

I LOVE my Lindsay system pipes, and not even for the extended range (which is good). They're just good bagpipes. Well made, great tone, minimal fussing with connections or reeds. The high G might be tuned a little differently than you're used to, but it's so it plays nicely with the extended range. I find the extended range to be very useable, but even if it takes one a little longer to know their way around it, you can play the instrument with highland fingering right off the bat. No changes necessary for the standard range.

For singing it's unbeatable. Playing a little countermelody on the lower added range makes for a beautiful effect, and popping up into the high range to play the melody is pretty impressive. However, your reed determines a lot of how useable the extended range is. The first reed I got was a very slender, delicate reed that made the high octave nigh on foolproof, but caused some problems with skirling and the flea hole system of accidentals. My new reed is much harder, and plays very solid low notes and accidentals, but requires a lot more precision for the high octave. Now that I'm making my own reeds, I'm curious to see whether I can strike a balance between the two I got from Donald.

Are you still in Oregon? It'd be cool to meet up and have a pipe show and tell sometime. My friend John Dally thought the pastoral pipes were too fiddly to be of real use, but I suspect the maker he was working with simply didn't have enough experience in the pastorals.

I think that John had worked with Ray Sloan. There is a series of videos about his attempts at making a pastoral pipe chanter. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND1cBNLRFLQ )

I haven’t played different pipes other than my renaissance small pipes in D. Once I got a reed that worked well for me, my pastoral pipe is solid, no real issues. Once I warm up a bit (relax) the full range is there, and it’s fun to play. So I don’t see it as “fiddly” at all.

Being a flute player and the way I play in sessions, I thought that playing the pastoral pipe would translate fairly smoothly. But there’s much more to it than what i had thought. It’s hard to explain. You’ve got to really have the tunes down.

Being similar to uilleann pipes, I think that the chanter is much more complex than that of other bagpipes. It’s that ability to play two full octaves. I feel that this is reflected in the difference pricing that one would see between the lowland, border, or flemish pipes; and the pastoral pipes from different makers. When looking at the cost it would seem that most have opted for the less expensive pipes; or the go into the uilleann pipes, because of better availability. That’s probably why there is only a few makers that specialize in them.

The Lindsey system, I think, is based on a small pipe bore and plays an octave lower, which would be ideal to accompany singers. I would love to try Lindsey pipes out!

So much depends on what music one wants to play. The flemish pipes have a nice voice ~ here is a quick pick up session at the 2015 pipe gathering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAVZo-6YWPg

I was deliberately not mentioning the maker on that one - it's always good when a maker goes out of their comfort zone and tries something new, even if it doesn't work out, and I wouldn't want their reputation to suffer over it. I'm just sad John's written off the pastorals due to the outcome of that experiment.

For sure! Send me a PM next time you're thinking of making a trip up to Seattle - I host a pretty rockin' session and would love to have you in for some tunes. We could mess about with the pipes beforehand!