The Myth of Hard Chanter Reeds
As I supply custom set pressure, synthetic chanter reeds, the idea is to have a piper play with a reed that suits the pressure they are comfortable playing. Mostly mature aged pipers that can no longer muster the will or energy to play hard and sometimes temperamental cane chanter reeds.
When I get requests for harder chanter reeds I always ask why? I usually get some confusing reply like, “I always play a hard reed”. This doesn’t answer why? It also seems to me this piper does not have the skills or bag control to play a more moderate reed.
I recently spent some time with an old PM from the 60’s era (Jock, yes, that's his name) and after yapping for an hour or so I started to understand this hard reed philosophy. He went on to explain that as a PM, he wanted to avoid any of his pipers’ overblowing notes and autocranning (squeaking) as this could affect their judging results. The harder the reed, the harder to over blow the reed was the universal answer.
The down side of playing hard chanter reeds was the higher probability of chokes but as Jock stated, he would rather have a no sound than an unwanted sound (autocran), so the myth of the hard chanter reed was created.
The other unwanted down side of hard chanter reeds was the need to have drones that would not shut off when they had to be set to the same higher operating pressure to match the chanter reed. This gave us the options of a sporran hair under the drone reed blade or a bent paper clip up the reed to keep it from closing off. Both bad practices as they effected the sound by making the reeds more buzzy and less harmonic, effectively using a bodgie fix for a poor technique issue.
This issue was addressed when the synthetic drone reeds appeared on the scene as they could be made to operate at high pressures, something I have covered in an earlier post.
As I see it, based on what I have been told and observed, when PMs insist on hard chanter reeds, they are basically trying to take poor playing ability and bag control out of the equation. Using the reed to compensate for poor playing ability. Now you all know who you are.
Most half decent pipers that come to see me like to play moderate strength reeds and they have the ability to operate the bag at the appropriate pressure so over blowing is not an issue for them. Most of the older pipers that see me have been playing for many years and generally have developed good bag control technique and this is why they have no issue with playing softer reeds.
We call the softer reeds players reeds for a good reason.
The panacea for poor bag control should not be harder chanter reeds as the best answer is good technique and wood shedding.
Cheers
-G
How to leard to blow the bag
-
Glenarley
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:20 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: My family has been making pipes and reeds for over 25 years both Uillean and GHB. I am being asked to share pass on information on to other pipers in this open environment.
-
pancelticpiper
- Posts: 5318
- Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: Playing Scottish and Irish music in California for 45 years.
These days many discussions are migrating to Facebook but I prefer the online chat forum format. - Location: WV to the OC
Re: How to leard to blow the bag
When a Grade One Worlds-winning tonemeister/reedmaker was setting up our band he asked one of our older pipers "what strength do you blow?"
Our mature gent replied "I'm a musician, not an athlete."
That's only the second time I've ever heard that philosophy stated. The first time was my old PM from the 1980s who said
"Hard reeds solve unsteady blowing: the reed's too hard for the pipers to overblow, and if they underblow the chanter just cuts out."
Personally my blowing is MORE steady on a reed that's a comfortable strength.
There's a magic middle ground, where the reed has a satisfying amount of backpressure and gives a full tone yet isn't too tiring to play.
It's a sad day when your perfect comfortable steady reliable reed has suddenly got thin and unsteady.
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
-
Glenarley
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:20 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: My family has been making pipes and reeds for over 25 years both Uillean and GHB. I am being asked to share pass on information on to other pipers in this open environment.
Re: How to leard to blow the bag
Unsteady Blowing
As a reed maker, the bane of my craft is unsteady blowing pipers.
I tailor reeds to blowing pressures and many of my clients want to have easy reeds, reeds in the 22 – 26” H2O range, 26 - 28” being the most asked for pressure.
The biggest problem is that the pipers asking for low pressure reeds are doing so because they struggle with the harder cane reeds they are playing, but they sound like a bag of old roosters because they are not steady with their bag pressure and somehow believe a softer synthetic reed will resolve their problems.
Soft reeds are not the panacea for poor bag control, something I am continually having to state to perspective clients.
While I have mentioned figures in previous posts, the numbers are the only way I can represent the problems.
If you want to play at 26”, the chanter reed will crow at about 24” and will overblow (autocran or squeak) on low A at about 36-38”. This is a pretty reasonable pressure range for a piper.
A cane reed looses between 15-25% blowing pressure once it is moisture normalised. The harder the cane (more fiber – less pith) the less the pressure drops. The pitch also varies with pressure differential but this is difficult to quantify because cane can vary so much.
Most half decent pipers will only vary up to about 5-6” pressure differential and really good pipers are so steady, the needle hardly moves more than one or two inches.
Some of the pipers I see are not able to stay under 10” variation, some are even more extreme. The reed has not yet been made, synthetic or cane, that will operate well with such a wide pressure variations so the only option is to give them a reed so high in pressure that it is impossible to get it to autocran or, teach them bag control. For PM’s the easy option is a hard reed.
Most tutors I have seen in recent time do not teach bag control as a necessary skill and seem to focus mostly on fingering the chanter. It is very common to hear the critique “good fingers – poor phrasing and tone”. This is because the piper is not steady and the tone is up and down so much that the chanter and drones are constantly out of wack with each other.
Last week I had a piper see me about a synthetic reed and while this piper would be welcomed in most grade two bands, he could only play at one pressure, around 33”. He was not Robinson Crusoe as this is a commonly found issue. He has never been taught bag control as a specific skill so he could not adjust his blowing pressure to suit a lower pressure bag configuration. This piper will never be a pibroch piper if he cannot play down to a more manageable pressure.
Drone only bag control is mutually exclusive to controlling the bag when it comes to learning sound technique. Adding the chanter should be the last step in the learning process.
No equipment will be the panacea for poor technique so practically all the gimmicks being marketed are a scam substitute for poor technique and that’s why so many pipers sound like a bag of old roosters.
I will address this technique issue in another post.
Cheers
-G
As a reed maker, the bane of my craft is unsteady blowing pipers.
I tailor reeds to blowing pressures and many of my clients want to have easy reeds, reeds in the 22 – 26” H2O range, 26 - 28” being the most asked for pressure.
The biggest problem is that the pipers asking for low pressure reeds are doing so because they struggle with the harder cane reeds they are playing, but they sound like a bag of old roosters because they are not steady with their bag pressure and somehow believe a softer synthetic reed will resolve their problems.
Soft reeds are not the panacea for poor bag control, something I am continually having to state to perspective clients.
While I have mentioned figures in previous posts, the numbers are the only way I can represent the problems.
If you want to play at 26”, the chanter reed will crow at about 24” and will overblow (autocran or squeak) on low A at about 36-38”. This is a pretty reasonable pressure range for a piper.
A cane reed looses between 15-25% blowing pressure once it is moisture normalised. The harder the cane (more fiber – less pith) the less the pressure drops. The pitch also varies with pressure differential but this is difficult to quantify because cane can vary so much.
Most half decent pipers will only vary up to about 5-6” pressure differential and really good pipers are so steady, the needle hardly moves more than one or two inches.
Some of the pipers I see are not able to stay under 10” variation, some are even more extreme. The reed has not yet been made, synthetic or cane, that will operate well with such a wide pressure variations so the only option is to give them a reed so high in pressure that it is impossible to get it to autocran or, teach them bag control. For PM’s the easy option is a hard reed.
Most tutors I have seen in recent time do not teach bag control as a necessary skill and seem to focus mostly on fingering the chanter. It is very common to hear the critique “good fingers – poor phrasing and tone”. This is because the piper is not steady and the tone is up and down so much that the chanter and drones are constantly out of wack with each other.
Last week I had a piper see me about a synthetic reed and while this piper would be welcomed in most grade two bands, he could only play at one pressure, around 33”. He was not Robinson Crusoe as this is a commonly found issue. He has never been taught bag control as a specific skill so he could not adjust his blowing pressure to suit a lower pressure bag configuration. This piper will never be a pibroch piper if he cannot play down to a more manageable pressure.
Drone only bag control is mutually exclusive to controlling the bag when it comes to learning sound technique. Adding the chanter should be the last step in the learning process.
No equipment will be the panacea for poor technique so practically all the gimmicks being marketed are a scam substitute for poor technique and that’s why so many pipers sound like a bag of old roosters.
I will address this technique issue in another post.
Cheers
-G
-
pancelticpiper
- Posts: 5318
- Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: Playing Scottish and Irish music in California for 45 years.
These days many discussions are migrating to Facebook but I prefer the online chat forum format. - Location: WV to the OC
Re: How to leard to blow the bag
And the bane of everyone who tries to set up and tune up a pipe band! Holey moley with some of those pipers there's just nothing you can do, they just can't be tuned up.
Yes if reeds are too easy they're inherently unstable and require a skilled delicate touch to play steady.
At one band practice somebody brought in one of those home-made manometer things, a length of clear aquarium tubing rigged up on a tall piece of wood.
When our old Pipe Major was plugged into it, we were all amazed at how steady his blowing was, so steady that if you looked closely you could see the surface of the water slightly bulging up or down, the meniscus staying in place. (Happily I was the second-best at blowing steady.)
Sadly around here it seems that more and more teachers aren't being strict on crossing noises. For me Job One is being able to get around the chanter from any note to any note cleanly. If you can't do that, why have them learn ornaments and tunes?
My old Pipe Major was like that- a very solid player and incredibly even blower who turned down invitation to join a Grade One band but as he explained to me once "I can only play at one pressure. I have to go through loads of reeds to find one that's right."
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
-
Glenarley
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:20 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: My family has been making pipes and reeds for over 25 years both Uillean and GHB. I am being asked to share pass on information on to other pipers in this open environment.
Re: How to leard to blow the bag
Steady Blowing is a Fundamental Skill
In recent times, tutors seem to be focusing on fingering and tune structure to the detriment of bag control skills. Obvious by all the frog cheeks and hyperventilating into the blow pipe.
When I was first introduced to my piping tutor, it was made clear to me that I would be on the practice chanter for some time and I would not be playing a chanter in the bagpipe until I had learned to control the bag pressure. This was done through drone only practice with a bag that had no chanter fitted.
The base drone was the primary drone and then the tenors were eventually unplugged once the base was seen as sounding reasonably steady. This taught us to listen to the tone of the drones and by listening, we would be able to adjust our blowing to maintain a steady tone. It worked.
Once we were close to steady, the pressure we were steadily playing the drones was seen as our comfort range and this was then used to set up a chanter reed playing pressure. With the drone only bag, it was also possible to develop correct breathing technique where the breathing was structured and rhythmic. No big bulgy frog cheeks and necks and no short breath hyperventilating like so many are seen to do currently.
Today, many tutors seem to go with a “goose” bag that only has the chanter attached, something the old tutors viewed as akin to the tail wagging the dog as they viewed the drones as the GHB engine, not the chanter. The better tutors seem to focus on what’s important and have the students doing drone only long note practice with an emphasis on steady, rhythmic breathing and the results are obvious.
During a conversation I had with Bob Shepherd over blowing and breathing technique, he sent me to this video link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nELwC6ZpLU to make his point. As he pointed out, these pipers are breathing in for 2-3 seconds, (no hyperventilating or frog cheeks) and they are maintaining a reasonable rhythm. This he said was a fundamental technique that he taught as a mandated skill set.
Yes, there are some highly accomplished pipers that have learned to play well with a poor technique, but these are the exceptions. Just like there have been some golf pros with very awkward driving swings that have achieved greatness, but it begs the question. Had they learned good technique that conformed to the principles of sound bio mechanics and physiology, they may have extended their careers and successes.
Just like learning scales on the piano and long not scales on wind instruments, the tried and true seems to shine through. Myself, my son, his tutor and the 2 ex-grade 1 pipers that help with my reed development, all developed through being taught with the drone only technique as it is fundamental to the development of sound bag control and steady tone.
Cheers
-G
In recent times, tutors seem to be focusing on fingering and tune structure to the detriment of bag control skills. Obvious by all the frog cheeks and hyperventilating into the blow pipe.
When I was first introduced to my piping tutor, it was made clear to me that I would be on the practice chanter for some time and I would not be playing a chanter in the bagpipe until I had learned to control the bag pressure. This was done through drone only practice with a bag that had no chanter fitted.
The base drone was the primary drone and then the tenors were eventually unplugged once the base was seen as sounding reasonably steady. This taught us to listen to the tone of the drones and by listening, we would be able to adjust our blowing to maintain a steady tone. It worked.
Once we were close to steady, the pressure we were steadily playing the drones was seen as our comfort range and this was then used to set up a chanter reed playing pressure. With the drone only bag, it was also possible to develop correct breathing technique where the breathing was structured and rhythmic. No big bulgy frog cheeks and necks and no short breath hyperventilating like so many are seen to do currently.
Today, many tutors seem to go with a “goose” bag that only has the chanter attached, something the old tutors viewed as akin to the tail wagging the dog as they viewed the drones as the GHB engine, not the chanter. The better tutors seem to focus on what’s important and have the students doing drone only long note practice with an emphasis on steady, rhythmic breathing and the results are obvious.
During a conversation I had with Bob Shepherd over blowing and breathing technique, he sent me to this video link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nELwC6ZpLU to make his point. As he pointed out, these pipers are breathing in for 2-3 seconds, (no hyperventilating or frog cheeks) and they are maintaining a reasonable rhythm. This he said was a fundamental technique that he taught as a mandated skill set.
Yes, there are some highly accomplished pipers that have learned to play well with a poor technique, but these are the exceptions. Just like there have been some golf pros with very awkward driving swings that have achieved greatness, but it begs the question. Had they learned good technique that conformed to the principles of sound bio mechanics and physiology, they may have extended their careers and successes.
Just like learning scales on the piano and long not scales on wind instruments, the tried and true seems to shine through. Myself, my son, his tutor and the 2 ex-grade 1 pipers that help with my reed development, all developed through being taught with the drone only technique as it is fundamental to the development of sound bag control and steady tone.
Cheers
-G
-
Glenarley
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:20 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: My family has been making pipes and reeds for over 25 years both Uillean and GHB. I am being asked to share pass on information on to other pipers in this open environment.
Re: How to leard to blow the bag
Sheepskin bags – Proves Brandolini's law
I still get 2-3 sheepie disgrunts every fortnight or so and while I don’t usually bother commenting any more, this post I was sent has me making an exception.
The following post is from a piper that calls himself horse racer, this suggests a punter so I think we know the type of person we are dealing with. Furthermore, I cannot find this piper on any gold medal or clasp Honors list so I am guessing just a legend in his own lunchtime.
He answers a question on the value of a sheepskin bag with the following blerb.
“I was a long-time denier of the impact of certain bags on sound...more specifically, sheepskin. I've changed my tune on that issue, meaning that I'm a strong believer is sheepskin helping produce the best sound (recognizing that there's more than just the bag in that formula). Does it make me a better player? Of course not, but with one caveat. Like any other instrument, we do better with a better instrument (or bows, for instance), and thus sound. But the main skill set is up to me. As for maintenance, I don't have any real issues (notwithstanding so many telling me that sheepskin is constant trouble). I'm using a Lee & Sons Premium, which does use less (very little, if any) seasoning. All that said, for most, it just comes down to comfort, on many levels, and sound and what works for you. But to your specific question, I find hide (sheepskin) is worth it.”
As I have previously stated numerous times prior, apart from some very subjective terms and opinions, no one I know of to date, including bag manufacturers, has ever defined “best sound” and how a sheepie achieves this over other materials. I had an AV department at a local university try to find a sound difference between bag materials and they came up with nothing more than The Emperor’s New Clothes.
If you read the horse racer’s post and need convincing this piper is, I believe, just trying to cast himself as elite and better than the rest, a Nose Tapping Black Arts practitioner sending the unsuspecting down the sheepie rabbit hole, please note. He states he is using a Lee & Sons Premium sheepie to support his subjective options, does he realise that the Lee & Sons Premium bag is a hybrid? It is not a real sheepie at all. Ooops!
The GHB bag is just a reservoir for air and will not, cannot, does not have an effect on the sound emitting from the GHB. In the late 1800’s it was stated by many bag makers, bovine if you can afford it, sheep skin if you have little money, just avoid the rabbit hole is my advice.
Some bags are cut to fit the piper and of course, different sizes. Try a bag for fit, like you would a pair of new boots, if the fit is good, the bag is good to go.
All the rest, I believe, is just promoting Brandolini’s Law theory.
Cheers
-G
I still get 2-3 sheepie disgrunts every fortnight or so and while I don’t usually bother commenting any more, this post I was sent has me making an exception.
The following post is from a piper that calls himself horse racer, this suggests a punter so I think we know the type of person we are dealing with. Furthermore, I cannot find this piper on any gold medal or clasp Honors list so I am guessing just a legend in his own lunchtime.
He answers a question on the value of a sheepskin bag with the following blerb.
“I was a long-time denier of the impact of certain bags on sound...more specifically, sheepskin. I've changed my tune on that issue, meaning that I'm a strong believer is sheepskin helping produce the best sound (recognizing that there's more than just the bag in that formula). Does it make me a better player? Of course not, but with one caveat. Like any other instrument, we do better with a better instrument (or bows, for instance), and thus sound. But the main skill set is up to me. As for maintenance, I don't have any real issues (notwithstanding so many telling me that sheepskin is constant trouble). I'm using a Lee & Sons Premium, which does use less (very little, if any) seasoning. All that said, for most, it just comes down to comfort, on many levels, and sound and what works for you. But to your specific question, I find hide (sheepskin) is worth it.”
As I have previously stated numerous times prior, apart from some very subjective terms and opinions, no one I know of to date, including bag manufacturers, has ever defined “best sound” and how a sheepie achieves this over other materials. I had an AV department at a local university try to find a sound difference between bag materials and they came up with nothing more than The Emperor’s New Clothes.
If you read the horse racer’s post and need convincing this piper is, I believe, just trying to cast himself as elite and better than the rest, a Nose Tapping Black Arts practitioner sending the unsuspecting down the sheepie rabbit hole, please note. He states he is using a Lee & Sons Premium sheepie to support his subjective options, does he realise that the Lee & Sons Premium bag is a hybrid? It is not a real sheepie at all. Ooops!
The GHB bag is just a reservoir for air and will not, cannot, does not have an effect on the sound emitting from the GHB. In the late 1800’s it was stated by many bag makers, bovine if you can afford it, sheep skin if you have little money, just avoid the rabbit hole is my advice.
Some bags are cut to fit the piper and of course, different sizes. Try a bag for fit, like you would a pair of new boots, if the fit is good, the bag is good to go.
All the rest, I believe, is just promoting Brandolini’s Law theory.
Cheers
-G