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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:29 am 
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Fergus wrote:
Thanks again everybody. I think I'm in the way. Now I'm learning to use both of the C# on the RH Acc, and makes more sense to use them in different phrases or triplets. I'm afraid that I'm only impatient to play all my irish fiddle repertoire on the tina - and be sure there are quite a few tunes... :lol: -.


Yeah, I'm still trying to transfer most of my whistle tunes to the concertina... it's not easy because whistle and concertina repertoires aren't really 'naturally compatible', not like flute/whistle and pipe would be...

For some reason I'm using the pull C# on the RH accidental row a bit more than the push C#, but I'm still not convinced it's the right thing. I often use it to create some jumpiness I like better, often coming from the push D on the LH G row...

That's why I can't wait for my next lessons, to get suggestions about what to do/use in some circumstances. Nope, "what works for me" doesn't work for me.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:25 am 
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Now, this is really funny. I play regularly in a session in Madrid - for those who know it, is held in Taberna Elisa every Monday's night -.

One of the best musicians - and I've proudly to say, one of my best friends - is an irishman who plays wonderfully pipes, but never was able to understand the fiddle. Same happens to me with the uilleann pipes, so all the years long we've spent playing together - 12 or so, I reckon - we've both learned tunes, he adapting fiddle tunes to the pipes - and how! - and me learning all those bizarre modal pipe tunes. And it works very well.

Anyway, and changing subject; I hope playing ITM will not take the enormous amount of time and effort that learning fiddle took! I hope that playing an 'always-in-tune' instrument will help me :P

Cheers,

Fer


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 12:50 pm 
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You shouldn't be running out of air a lot, especially if you're playing a Morse Ceili, which is a pretty airtight box.

In my experience, a lot of the rhythm and lift comes from pushing and pulling; if you run out of air a lot in one direction, your choice of fingering may make your phrasing too smooth. I know that the push-and-pull can be a pain in the butt, but the only thing for it is to practice until it is no longer a pain in the butt.

On an anglo, some parts of the scale are unavoidably back-and-forth, and that's actually good for you. I've met several English concertina players who got into Irish, and while their instrument can theoretically emulate the same push-and-pull, they end up not doing it because they don't have to.

You don't need the Noel Hill system in particular to fix your air and your sound; what you need to do is pick one single consistent way to finger every note, and stick with it except in the most awkward situations. Finger it across the rows, or along the rows, but pick exactly one way to do it, and don't reach for alternate buttons to make things easier or smoother; just practice the awkward phrases until they cease to be awkward. You will find that a lot of tunes then come out really poppy, and on average your air doesn't run out so much.


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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 12:34 pm 
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Caj wrote:
Finger it across the rows, or along the rows, but pick exactly one way to do it, and don't reach for alternate buttons to make things easier or smoother; just practice the awkward phrases until they cease to be awkward. You will find that a lot of tunes then come out really poppy, and on average your air doesn't run out so much.


Interesting, this is how I started... but I think I started the "wrong" way. As soon as I started using primarily the push D on the LH instead pull D on the RH, it unlocked many tunes. That's just an example. I don't believe in this "stick to one way of playing a note" theory, but maybe it works for others.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:43 am 
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I'm going to jump onto this thread too.

I am an uilleann piper by nature and nurture, but recently a concertina of unknown make or key has fallen into my lap (it has two rows, is anglo and costs about $500...it is probably this guy:
http://www.accordionheaven.com/photos4c ... 0600-3.jpg).

I have been putzing around with it and it is a blast! I have just been picking out slow aires and such. Haven't a clue what I'm doing right or wrong, but also don't want to learn, and later unlearn, bad habits (I know how hard THAT can be from the uilleann pipes).

I will never be a serious concertina player (uilleann pipes is a life-long journey, at least for me) but I really like this li'l singing caterpillar and I want to be able to play it (competently) when I am unable to drag my pipes along. Or just around the house.

Where does an old newbie like me go?

tommykleen


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:52 am 
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tommykleen wrote:
Where does an old newbie like me go?


Straight to hell... you'll be welcomed with open arms.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:40 am 
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StevieJ wrote:
tommykleen wrote:
Where does an old newbie like me go?


Straight to hell... you'll be welcomed with open arms.


Been there/play that. Please note I said I play the uilleann pipes.

Come on now, is "straight to hell" the best advice I can get on this?

T


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:01 am 
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I will never be a serious concertina player


Then why worry about bad habits if you're not serious? And if you're even half-serious about playing the C/G Anglo concertina then you'll want a three row concertina, with at least 26 buttons and couple of accidentals, so you can play in the key of D.

I don't know what you mean, "Where do I go?" There is enough information and advice on this thread to take somebody who isn't serious -- or even somebody who is serious -- a long way.

The most important thing about learning the concertina is to have a default (consistent) system of fingering and to understand that -- and also to know that there are times when the default system won't work and to understand what do do then.

If you're happy enough to play it up and down the rows, like two harmonicas, then you don't need a default system. Things only start to get tricky when you play across the rows, and play in the keys of D and A on a C/G instrument.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:11 am 
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Then why worry about bad habits if you're not serious?

Well, even if you're not serious, you want to make sure you get the most oomph out of the thing.

Quote:
And if you're even half-serious about playing the C/G Anglo concertina then you'll want a three row concertina, with at least 26 buttons and couple of accidentals, so you can play in the key of D.

On this I disagree. If you're half-serious, you can play seriously half of your tunes on a 20-button box, for far less money (or you can get a really nice box relatively cheap, because 20-button boxes are undervalued by the lack of demand.)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:25 pm 
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I could never be satisfied without the C#. Many of my favorite tunes have C#s, even tunes in G, with some C# accidental that makes all the difference. I'd rather buy a 30 buttons hybrid than a 20 buttons Jeffries, even for the same price, but that's just me :-)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:13 am 
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What Azalin said. Only to add that most good modern 30 button hybrids will play much, much better than the normal run of old 20 button concertinas. The best 20 button I ever played was a mid-30s Wheatstone. It sold it for about the same price as you'd pay for a good 30 button hybrid. It certainly didn't play any better and it lacked the flexibility offered by having 30 buttons.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:17 pm 
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Julia Delaney wrote:
What Azalin said. Only to add that most good modern 30 button hybrids will play much, much better than the normal run of old 20 button concertinas. The best 20 button I ever played was a mid-30s Wheatstone. It sold it for about the same price as you'd pay for a good 30 button hybrid. It certainly didn't play any better and it lacked the flexibility offered by having 30 buttons.


While the normal layout for a 20 button instrument is kind of limiting when it comes to Irish Music, I think it might be wise to keep in mind that for Irish Music, 30 buttons are hardly necessary. Excellent 24-28 button instruments can serve just as well for many players assuming the extra buttons contain the notes you need :). Heck, assuming it included the C#'s, you could get away with a 22 button instrument (Though I don't know if many of those have been made).

Of course all of this assumes you want a CG instrument where the C/G rows are standard. Not saying anyone should do this, but you could probably do a lot to emulate the older Clare style if you were to make a 20 button instrument where the G row remains as is, and the C row is replaced with frequently used accidentals. I know I have watched Chris Droney play and it seems to me that almost all of his playing is on the G row.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:15 pm 
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Do you want to play like Chris? Is he the player that you listen to the most?

Who do you listen to the most (aside from yourself)?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:41 pm 
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Julia Delaney wrote:
Do you want to play like Chris? Is he the player that you listen to the most?

Who do you listen to the most (aside from yourself)?


I play like myself :). I like Chris's playing, but I think his style relies too much on the left hand for it to be the best choice for me. Maybe if I had started before my 30s I might have built the dexterity in the ring and little finger of my left hand to be comfortable enough with them to rely on them (I use them a fair bit, but I tend to use them only when I have no other choice. I built my style from bits I learned here and bits I figured out from CDs I have listened to.

I listen to a lot of different players. Mícheál Ó Raghallaigh is probably my favorite player, but he does stuff that is so far beyond me that I don't even try to emulate him. Tim Collins, Noel Hill, Mary MacNamara, Jacqueline McCarthy, Father Charlie, Gearoid O hAllmhurain... and others are all on my listen to frequently list.

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