Concertina before button accordion?

[Rhadge]

This is not a question from me, but a relative that is thinking of starting playing the button accordion.
Since concertinas are so much cheaper, he reasons that he maybe should get one of those instead, and then move on in a couple of years.

Is the concertina a good starter instrument before button accordion?

[Fergus]

This is not a question from me, but a relative that is thinking of starting playing the button accordion.
Since concertinas are so much cheaper, he reasons that he maybe should get one of those instead, and then move on in a couple of years.

Is the concertina a good starter instrument before button accordion?

You must be joking. I purchased a month a go a Morse Ceili - the one of my avatar - second hand, about 1300 euro. For that prize, you've a good Paolo Soprani - second hand too, of course -. And my concertina is middle range.

You can expect to pay for a 30 key Jeffries C/G in good condition up to 7000 euro.

So, sorry; concertinas are NOT cheaper than button accordions. Is likeky more to be the opposite.

Cheers,

Fer

P.D: Although they're both free reed instruments, they are total different instruments. I play a little B/C box and I know what I'm talking about

[Rhadge]

No, I'm not joking. Maybe I'm misinformed though.

I see a new concertina for 100 euro (good practice concertina according to the shop), but can't find any button accordion, not even used, at that price.

I guess I'll extend my question then.
What button accordion is recommended for a beginner, and what's the price he should expect to pay?

[StevieJ]

Concertina players I know (well Azalin anyway) would get very shirty if you suggested to them that the tina is a stepping stone to the button box... Despite the fact that they both have bellows, buttons, and a different note in and out (Anglo tinas and diatonic button boxes, that is), playing technique and note layout are very different. So no, concertinas are not a good starter instrument for button boxes. And yes, good tinas are very expensive.

Price of a button box? Three choices (assuming your friend is looking for an Irish-style box in C#/D or B/C):

1. look for a used Hohner Double-Ray or similar and you _might_ get a decent one for US $600.
2. buy an entry-level new box. You can get a Weltmeister or Irish Dancemaster accordion for $800-$1000. I'd stay away from new Chinese-made Double-Rays, and I'd go for a Dancemaster before a Weltmeister. There is also the Hohner Morgane (B/C only, made in Europe), good value at $1100.
3. buy a better-quality box new or second-hand. New, $2000 and up. Second-hand: Maze advertised a Saltarelle Irish Bouëbe on here the other day for $1500, that's a reasonable price.

Button Box price list: http://buttonbox.com/button-accordions.html#but4

They're expensive instruments. And actually not as easy to play (well) as people might assume. The world is currently awash in good-quality second-hand boxes, evidence to my mind of expensive playthings bought in good times, never really played, and being dumped to raise cash in the current climate. This should give anyone in the market for a used box a bit of bargaining power, so don't be shy to make lower offers!

[Rhadge]

Thanks!
All of those are quite expensive, as you say.

I think the only thing in his range, if he saves money, is the first option.

[Martin Milner]

I'd like to see a picture of this €100 concertina that is supposed to be good for a beginner. It's probably plastic and meant as a children's toy.

All the technology that exists in a button box exists in a concertina, but has to be packed in an even smaller space, with more complicated angles involved for levers, springs etc.

It's also harder to make a good hexagonal airtight set of bellows than a rectangular one.

A concertina costs at least 1.5 to 3 times the price of a button box of the same quality.

The method of playing each is also very different, so although they are in the same instrument family, and some people who play one also play the other, it's better to start with what you mean to go on with.

Buying a cheap box or concertina usually has one of two outcomes - you end up buying a better one very soon because the chaep one holds you back (leaky bellows, sticking buttons, nasty sound etc.) , or you give up in disgust, unaware that it was the instrument's fault and not yours.

A cheap box or concertina also has almost zero resale value, while a decent instrument can be sold for much of what you paid for it, especially if you bought second hand.

[Fergus]

Sorry, Rhadge; I din't mean to sound harsh.

Martin is totally right, I've been playing a Stagi for a while and when I purchased my morse from Button Box, the improvement was exponential...

A reasonably not-too-bad concertina for beginners is the Rochelle - sold at the button box, too -.

Anyway, look such a beauty for only 13,000 $:

http://buttonbox.com/cau0518.html

And it's not even in the standard tuning for ITM!

Cheers,

Fer

[scheky]

I nearly gagged when I read how Concertinas were so much cheaper.

[Rhadge]

http://www.dragspeloteket.se/library/mo ... =4&XID=255

By request, here is the concertina referred to.
Indeed, it is plastic and Made in China.
The text states in swedish that it is a good practice concertina for children and adults.

I understand though, thanks to your input, that the only thing reliable with this concertina would be that it can make some sort of sounds.

[Padre]

forget about it
they are trying to sell s...
so they got to wrap it in a shiny tin foil.
but that not even the point,
this concertina has just 20 buttons, you won't be able to play all the tunes.
besides I don't believe that it will be in tune
wait little longer, save a little bit more money
get yourself decent instrument.
if you'll buy s... it will affect your playing.

[Fergus]

http://www.dragspeloteket.se/library/mo ... =4&XID=255

By request, here is the concertina referred to.
Indeed, it is plastic and Made in China.
The text states in swedish that it is a good practice concertina for children and adults.

I understand though, thanks to your input, that the only thing reliable with this concertina would be that it can make some sort of sounds.

Right. So, being swedish, - and living in Sweden, I supose - you're not too far from Wim Wakker:

http://www.concertinaconnection.com/roc ... 0anglo.htm

If you ask the pals of concertina.net, they'll tell you same as I do: for the price, is the cheapest reasonably anglo you can find.

Cheers,

Fer

[Fergus]

Sorry, double post

[Rhadge]

Fergus:

Thanks.
Although, he's more likely going to go for a button accordion than a concertina. Concertina just appealed to him when I told him he would be able to get away cheap with one, to train before starting with button accordion (me at that time having not yet received input here).

I must say anyhow that concertinas are good-looking instruments (except the cheap plastic ones).

[BoneQuint]

I must say anyhow that concertinas are good-looking instruments (except the cheap plastic ones).

Mine ain't ugly:

[Rhadge]

Indeed, it looks quite good. But I guess it's not cheap.