anglo versus english concertina for neo/speed-folk

[Pazi]

Hello,

first i want to apologize to you about my poor english. I hope i will be able to be articulate (and not to be unpolite).

I play Tin Whistle for some time now (a Freeman tweaked Shaw ) but i want to learn an additional instrument and i realy realy fell in love with the concertina. My preferred style of music is some kind of neo/speed-folk.

I have read a lot of literature concerning the the differences between anglo, english and duet concertina and i also listen to much music played on them, but even after that, some things are not plain to me.

1. I recognized, that most tunes i heard played with an english style concertina are just the pure melody while the tunes played on the anglo concertina was complement with some sort of rhythm and chord stuff (for example bass note altering) what made it sound more rich when played solo. Is all this also possible on an english concertina or is it not possible because of the side-jumping fingering (or are there other options on the english that are comparable)?

2. Most music played on the anglo (or the anglo itself) seems to be slower and maybe a little bit hesitant (is this the right word?) and slower to speak than the english concertina. Can one play on an anglo realy realy fast/as fast as on the english concertina on a compareable skill level?

I also was not able to figure out what the disadvantages of a 30 key english concertina are compared to a 48 keyed (because i am a poor studend the money i can spend is very limited and i do not know if a can get my hands on a english concertina with 48 keys. My prefered model would be the jackie from concertina connection ... or the rochelle...).
Is the pitch range of the 30 keyed lower? (and if so, on the low or on the high end?).

It is not easy to choose... because i do some neo-speed-folk stuff i need a fast instrument and it would also be nice to be able to play in other keys...
On the other hand i do much solostuff and there the anglo seems to be better?


Thx for your patience
Yours truly
Pazi

[BoneQuint]

Well, here's my opinion. I play Anglo and Hayden duet, but I've only experimented with an English for a little while.

With the Anglo, it's easier to get simple accompaniment. You can hold down some buttons on the left side while playing a melody on the right, and the left-hand notes will harmonize and change with the melody -- it's like the way chords change when you breathe in and out on a harmonica (the harmonica and Anglo are very similar in their layout). But your harmony choices are limited by what notes are available in each direction, and playing in keys other than C, G, and a few others starts to get pretty complicated and difficult quickly. A good player on the Anglo can play quite fast, but it's probably a bit more essential to have a top quality instrument with good bellows for speed than it is for an English (since you have to change directions so much more often with an Anglo). Here's a YouTube example of some fast Anglo playing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaFX4SurqSg

There are a few more options for ornaments with the anglo because of the different notes in and out. It's probably easier to play hard and loud than than the English, since your whole hand rests against the ends giving you more power to quickly change directions and hit hard accents. And you can do pretty full arrangements including continuous bass notes, chords, and melody which is pretty difficult on an English (but is even easier on a duet). Here's an example of me playing a relatively simple but full arrangement of an early ragtime tune on an Anglo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqcosJHAepA

In general, it is a bit easier to play fast on an English, especially if you're just playing a melody. You can play accompaniment with melody on the English quite well, but it takes a bit more musical knowledge and planning. As you say, since the melody goes from side to side, the harmony note you want may not fall easily under the fingers. And there are many more "wrong" notes available at any time, you can't just "bash away" at it like you can with an Anglo. Here's a sound recording of a more complex arrangement of a ragtime tune, done on English concertina by a true expert, Alistair Anderson:
http://concertina.JeffLeff.com/audio/strenuous.mp3

The 30-key English is missing an octave of notes at the top of the range compared to the 48-key, but many people don't use the very high notes anyway (except maybe to fill out chords). It's also missing a few duplicate accidentals which are there to make it easier to play in different keys. But even with the missing accidentals, it's probably easier to play in more varied keys on the English than it is on the Anglo.

Some people seem to find the different notes going in-and-out on the Anglo very strange. Others seem to find the way the melody goes from side-to-side on the English odd. You would really have to try both to figure out what would work for you.

[Pazi]

Thank you for this very detailed answer,
when i saw the link to the Whistling Rufus -video i had to smile and i am beside myself with joy a little bit talking to you. In fact it was this video that let me fell in love with concertinas and i have much fun to listen to it more than once mostly every day . (I know, it is maybe a little bit contumelious, but would you share the sheet music of your arrangement? I am a chump when it comes to music theory and would hardly be able to arrange it by myself).

I was offered to buy a used rochelle ( a little bit more than 100€, ca. 150$) and i think i will take it. (sadly I will not have the chance to try both, anglo and english instruments soon).

Over all i like the anglo more than the english but there are two things i am a little bit afraid of.

First the key-limitation. I play mostly irish stuff in key of D that should not be a problem. But i also like to play funny other stuff (i love Pippi Longstocking tune for example on my tin whistle) and i am not sure if i will be unsatisfied with the anglo some day because of its key limitations.

Second is, that i will not be able to puchase a better instrument than a rochelle (or jackie) for a long long time, and as you said, the cheaper a anglo is the slower is its action (and speed is not unimportant for me).

On the other hand an english would be, to me as a music theory chump, harder to learn imho, and that ornamentation is more limited sounds not good, too.

All in all i feel a little bit overstrained but i think i will pick the rochelle and give it a try.

[LimuHead]

Well, here's my opinion. I play Anglo and Hayden duet, but I've only experimented with an English for a little while.

Dude! I want a Hayden duet!

What make did you get?

How do you like playing it?

Think you'll ever bring it to a SF Bay Area gathering?

I'd love to try it!

Aldon

[Ptarmigan]

Hey Pazi,

I reckon almost anything is possible on the English Concertina.
If you don't believe me, just ask Simon Thoumire!

Simon Thoumire and Jim Sutherland

Simon Thoumire plays a couple of Reels

Simon Thoumire plays the Bee's Wing Hornpipe

Cheers
Dick