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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:50 am 
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I'm interested in trying the anglo concertina and have a chanter made by Davy Stephenson that I might trade with. Please could someone advise me on a good instrument for around the £500 mark. Thanks


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:18 am 
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A box player replies: Good? Hmm. You will probably need to double your budget to get a new handmade "hybrid" concertina - one that uses accordion reeds (e.g. Edgley, Morse). A good vintage concertina or a new handmade instrument with proper concertina reeds will probably cost you 5 times your budget or more.

If £500 is your limit, based on hearsay your best is a Chinese-made Rochelle supplied by http://www.concertinaconnection.com/.

Against my better judgment :wink: I was persuaded to include concertina links at http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/brosteve/irishboxlinks.html, so you'll find links to the websites of concertina makers there.

If you want more informed advice, go to the forums at concertina.net.

Steve

PS You realize you will lose gentleman status, don't you?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:32 am 
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StevieJ wrote:

PS You realize you will lose gentleman status, don't you?


The most blatant case of misappropriating a joke I've seeen for, well .... hours.

Everybody knows that the joke, in it's pure form goes: a gentleman is a man who can play the accordeon but doesn't.

Unfortunately, GP, Stevie did get the concertina situation roughly right. If you have access to a very good restorer, and you get lucky with your trade, you might be able to get a fairly good Lachenal 3 row anglo for maybe 800 quid. Otherwise you'll need to save up a bit. But that's OK, what Stevie didn't mention was the five year waiting list for something really good.

Oh, there is one possiblity I forgot. Dale has a mate who is beginning to produce concertinas with real reeds. I forget his name but someone else is bound to remember. He might not have a huge waiting list and, if I remember rightly, he was dedicated to producing affordable instruments.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:37 am 
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lachenal-Anglo-Co ... dZViewItem

does anyone have an opinion as to whether this would be a good deal?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:36 am 
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Depends on what the reserve price is. It's going to go for more than £500, I can promise you that.

Wombat wrote:
Oh, there is one possiblity I forgot. Dale has a mate who is beginning to produce concertinas with real reeds. I forget his name but someone else is bound to remember. He might not have a huge waiting list and, if I remember rightly, he was dedicated to producing affordable instruments.


Bob Tedrow? I know he's Dale's mate and makes concertinas but I don't know anything else about him.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:59 am 
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It would be for under £500, but we don't know what the "realistic" reserve price is - might be over £1,000.

Barleycorn are a respected restorer in the UK, here's their website:

http://www.concertina.co.uk/Anglo-Concertinas.htm

If you're serious, you don't want to get a 20 button model, you'll soon find it limiting.

The choice of metal vs wooden ends is personal, the sound can be quite different. It's really a good idea if you can to get along to a Festival or other event and actually handle some instruments, to give you an idea of what to expect for your money.

The good news is if you splash £1,000 or more on a concertina and decide after a few months you don't want it after all, you should have no problem selling it again for close to what you paid, and you might even make a profit.

If you don't have the cash, I do know people who play Stagi concertinas and are quite happy with them. You can get a Stagi for under £500 from The Music Room, but I can't answer as to playability.

http://www.themusicroom-online.co.uk/in ... rers_id/44

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:13 am 
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Concertina Connection Rochelle any day over a Stagi or Hohner. It's closer in sound, construction, and action to a real concertina, than either of the latter. Concertina Connection also offers an English version, called the Jackie. Both models are a bit heavy and clunky, and the top end scale is chopped, but are quite playable. You can buy these directly from Wim at Concertina Connection or he sells them through EBay. Costs is a good deal less that a decent stick, under $400 US if I remember. I'd class this instrument as "barely tolerable". The Stagi and Hohner are "intolerable". I say both from direct experience.

The next step up (in quality and cost) is Wakker, Morse, Tedrow, Edgely, etc., which are great instruments, but use accordian reeds. Cost is about twice that of a good stick. I think Wim will trade the Rochelle up for a nicer model, if I remember right.

Then there are true concertinas. Cost for a fully restored Wheatstone or Lachneal can tend towards a modest 3/4 set, with Jeffries costs off the chart.

New concertias by Suttner, Dipper, etc have similar costs (5K US) and wait times (in the years) to a modest UP 3/4 set.

If you are looking for a good used concertina, Chris Alger in the UK is a great source.

I don't think a 1-1 trade of a Stepenson chanter for any sort of concertina would be viable. The values are not really equivilent. Think about going for the Rochelle if your budget is tight. You can always resell or trade.

For what it's worth, I am totally happy with my Morse ($1800US).

-- Harlow


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:10 am 
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are metal ends better than wooden? do you need drone keys? do all instruments follow the same fingering?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:08 am 
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gentlemanpiper wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lachenal-Anglo-Concertina-in-C-G-Metal-Ends-and-Buttons_W0QQitemZ160141453881QQihZ006QQcategoryZ308QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

does anyone have an opinion as to whether this would be a good deal?


It ended at £1,600 and the reserve was not met.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:27 pm 
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Well, metal ended may be a little brighter sounding and wooden ended may be a little darker. It's very subjective... I don't think there is a better. Steel reeds are louder than brass reeds so if you would play in a session you might consider those on a real concertian. Drone keys are non-standard and not at all needed. They are a nice novelty addtion, but I would not hold out for them.

>> Do all the instuments have the same fingering?

Yikes.... no... there is the anglo system and its minor variations (Wheastone, Jeffreys layouts, number of rows, the Wheatstone English system, and the various duet systems; Maccann, Crane/Triumph, and the elusive Hayden. Three row Anglo and English are most widely used. Bob Tedrow is now making a great little Hayden system box. Most go with Anglo, but that is diatonic, and I went with the chromatic English system with no regrets.

Have you looked around at concertina.net ? They have lots of great information about all these systems, and forums where you can ask questions. They also have a buy and sell forum which is reputable.

Personally I WOULD NOT get a C/G Anglo for my first box-- you won't be able to play a lot of session music with that. Session music tends towards D and A, and that would not work out on a C/G. If you plan on playing mostly on your own then I guess it would not matter so much. Otherwise that looks like a good concertina, apparently restored by Chris Algar recently, but I'd hesitate buying site unseen.

Frankly, the Tedrow, Morse, Edgely, or Wakker boxes are brand new, so no a risk, and are very nice for a beginner and can be resold easily if you ever should want to move up.

If you want a real concertiana, I would contact Chris Algar in the UK or the Button Box in the US. At least you have some assurance about the quality of what you are getting from them. Here are some websites:

http://buttonbox.com (Rich Morse)
http://hmi.homewood.net/ (Bob Tedrow)
http://www.concertinas.ca/ (Frank Edgley
http://www.concertinaconnection.com/ (Wim Wakker)
http://www.concertina.co.uk/ (Chris Algar)

Good luck!

-- Harlow


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:59 pm 
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hpinson wrote:
Personally I WOULD NOT get a C/G Anglo for my first box-- you won't be able to play a lot of session music with that. Session music tends towards D and A, and that would not work out on a C/G.


30-button C/G is in fact the system of choice for Irish players, so you needn't worry about not being able to play session tunes on one. I'm not exactly sure why C/G prevails, but it's something to do with the range of the rows.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:17 pm 
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I disagree. But come to your own conclusion. Ask at your local session which keys are dominant in Irish Trad.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:11 pm 
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hpinson wrote:
I disagree. But come to your own conclusion. Ask at your local session which keys are dominant in Irish Trad.


Thanks, but I don't think many of us need lessons in which are the predominant keys in Irish trad. All I am saying is that there is no need to fear that session tunes cannot be played very well indeed on a C/G, since virtually every anglo player in Ireland plays that system.

Not being a tina player, I can't say why they all play C/G, but I can say with certainty that they do.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:11 am 
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D music is quite easily played on a C/G anglo. It's the primary type of anglo at the sessions I've been to, though sometimes a G/D is brought out. Also most classes and tutorials are geared for C/G.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:07 am 
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hpinson wrote:
Session music tends towards D and A, and that would not work out on a C/G.


Maybe in Albuquerque, but not England, where gentlemanpiper lives, or or Ireland, where lots of Irish music is played.

D and G are the predominent keys, with a smattering of A tunes, mostly of Scottish origin. Is there a big Scottish influence in Albuquerque?

D/G concertinas (or is that G/D) are popular in England because we play Morris Music on D/G Melodeons, and it's easier than playing on a C/G, though the tunes are playable on C/G, you just couldn't do the same chord backing.

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