I wonder if my wrist will ever get painless, but i'm sure it's no carpal tunnel.
I think it's mostly related to fybromyalgy, wich i was diagnosed with.
I tried some ordinairy foam but it didn't do much good. So i tried a martial arts shop.
The only padding that seemed to work for me there was this
<a href="http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 0016ue.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/201/ ... 6ue.th.jpg" border="0" alt="Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us" /></a>
But there's still a lot of pain, wich i think is very unusual after 2 years of playing. I admit i didn't practice much, i play a lot more flute. The pain comes at the end of my practicing, and lingers on for up to half an hour. i admit i didn't practice much, i play a lot more flute.
I better get it checked out at my doctor's...
I seen some players that use various materials.
Eoghan O'Sullivan use a piece of material similar to these use Sharon Shannon (oh my God... my bad english!!!)... I hope you understand...
I think it's down to the design of the box, and the way the left hand has to crul over to hit the bass buttons. Not sure why anyone not using the basses should have pain.
I play two different Castagnaris, a Studio and a Lilly. I do get pain in my left wrist and hand with the Studio, but never with the Lilly.
I've already padded the strap of the Studio with a seat belt pad, and plan to add a sponge under my wrist soon. Happily I only practise on this box, up to an hour a day, and the discomfort only develops towards the end of the practise time.
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that schwing
Martin Milner wrote:
I play two different Castagnaris, a Studio and a Lilly. I do get pain in my left wrist and hand with the Studio, but never with the Lilly.
That's because the Studio is bigger i'd say, also the pressure on your wrist is on a different point. That doesn't mean necessary
"the smaller the box, the easyer the playing". It's what feels best.
I sold my saltarelle Nuage because it was much wider than my Cairdin, also the Saltarelle was extremely stiff. It would take a few years of hard practice to loosen up the bellows
I'd give up the few basses i play, if that would take the pain away, but i don't think that's my problem.
If i found out the accordion would in any way interfere with my flute playing, then i think i'd stop playing accordion.
Martin Milner wrote:
I play two different Castagnaris, a Studio and a Lilly. I do get pain in my left wrist and hand with the Studio, but never with the Lilly.
That's because the Studio is bigger i'd say, also the pressure on your wrist is on a different point. That doesn't mean necessary
"the smaller the box, the easyer the playing". It's what feels best.
I sold my saltarelle Nuage because it was much wider than my Cairdin, also the Saltarelle was extremely stiff. It would take a few years of hard practice to loosen up the bellows
I'd give up the few basses i play, if that would take the pain away, but i don't think that's my problem.
If i found out the accordion would in any way interfere with my flute playing, then i think i'd stop playing accordion.
Agreed, I don't think the Lilly is less strain on the wrist because of it's size, more because of the angle of my left wrist when playing.
Of course it is significantly smaller and lighter than almost anything else on the market, which is why I chose it. Carry soemthing big around all day, plus a fiddle and various Morris kit, and you know about it.
A good way to loosen stiff bellows is to leave the instrument out and open slightly overnight, with some air in the bellows. If it's always put away strapped closed, the instrument accepts that as the zero point. If it's used to being open, that becomes the zero point.
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that schwing
Back when I was playing with Paddy O'Brien, he used to wear athletic wrist bands. I am not certain if he still does, it has been a while since I have seeen him play. He also would use an adjustable band (with velcro) midway up his forearm to help support constant bouts with tendonitis.
Both of these things seemed to do the trick, he rarely if ever mentioned any discomfort.
I believe i just found out what's the cause of this pain, i'm bending my bellows too much, if i work them straight, than there's no pain in the end, just fatigue of playing I'm delighted!
But this doesn't work for everyone as usual, there's plenty good musicians doing just that. Anyway i think the karate padding i'm using is very good, i tried all different kinds in a sports shop.
But why do 13 year olds get away with it all, they don't even need padding, and they teach old fellas all the tricks http://tinyurl.com/do8d3
lixnaw wrote:I believe i just found out what's the cause of this pain, i'm bending my bellows too much, if i work them straight, than there's no pain...
Can you explain what you mean by "bending" and "working them straight"?
By bending, do you mean, for example, that when you close the bellows, the bass cabinet doesn't travel in a straight line to meet the treble cabinet, but waggles about?
lixnaw wrote:I believe i just found out what's the cause of this pain, i'm bending my bellows too much, if i work them straight, than there's no pain...
Can you explain what you mean by "bending" and "working them straight"?
By bending, do you mean, for example, that when you close the bellows, the bass cabinet doesn't travel in a straight line to meet the treble cabinet, but waggles about?
Steve
No Steve, lucky enough there's no swaggering or waggles,
i mean this with bending
I actually pull my left strap, wich is down at my elbow, a little tighter to prevent this.
She's bending in two directions, actually 1) opening in a fanlike motion, with the bellows more open at the bottom than at the top, and 2) bringing the bass cabinet forward slightly. I wouldn't think there's much ergonomically wrong with either of these movements, especially 1), which is pretty universal and uses far less effort than trying to open the bellows equally along the top and bottom edges. Though maybe 2) does make the rear edge of the bass cabinet dig into the tendons on the inside forearm.
I would think the thing that is most likely to give problems in the long run is her Sharon-Shannonesque hold, placing the treble cabinet outside the left leg, forcing the left arm to extend a very long way from the body. Maybe this is why Sharon seems to need thick padding now that she's no longer a teenage wunderkind?
StevieJ wrote:She's bending in two directions, actually 1) opening in a fanlike motion, with the bellows more open at the bottom than at the top, and 2) bringing the bass cabinet forward slightly. I wouldn't think there's much ergonomically wrong with either of these movements, especially 1), which is pretty universal and uses far less effort than trying to open the bellows equally along the top and bottom edges. Though maybe 2) does make the rear edge of the bass cabinet dig into the tendons on the inside forearm.
I would think the thing that is most likely to give problems in the long run is her Sharon-Shannonesque hold, placing the treble cabinet outside the left leg, forcing the left arm to extend a very long way from the body. Maybe this is why Sharon seems to need thick padding now that she's no longer a teenage wunderkind?
Sharon actually works her bellows very straight compared to others,and farther away on her left leg than the girl in the picture. And she sits more straight than Mairtin O' connor, who has more of a bent over style, but he's the fastest. what works best for me is playing the bellows straight, i've no problem with that as long as i keep my left elbow down as much as possible. anyway, I think there's no rule, each has to find out want works best.
Last edited by lixnaw on Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
I presume all these pictures are of people playing ITM, and not using the bass buttons much if at all?
Playing Morris, I'm constantly punching the bass buttons, and moving or twisting my left hand slightly within the strap to hit different sequences of basses.
I'm suprised Sharon has the bellows as wide open as she does, I thought the idea was to "ride" the air button so you keep the bellows within a 15 to 30cm span for maximum control, and if you're not using the basses, riding the air button is even easier.
Of course I'm not saying Sharon can't play properly, just interested in the various techniques.
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that schwing
Martin Milner wrote:I presume all these pictures are of people playing ITM, and not using the bass buttons much if at all?
Playing Morris, I'm constantly punching the bass buttons, and moving or twisting my left hand slightly within the strap to hit different sequences of basses.
I'm suprised Sharon has the bellows as wide open as she does, I thought the idea was to "ride" the air button so you keep the bellows within a 15 to 30cm span for maximum control, and if you're not using the basses, riding the air button is even easier.
Of course I'm not saying Sharon can't play properly, just interested in the various techniques.
I think Sharon's just showing off at the end of a tune so she plays the last note very long.
She usually plays like you said, at a 15 to 30 cm span.
Dave "The Bullet from Belmullet" Munnelly, like Sharon also plays C#/D, but he plays a 4 voice with a lot more power, i heard his accordions are in for repairs al lot... Mairtin O'connor straps the same as Dave actually. His left strap is slung near his elbow, my left strap is there aswell, i find it very comfy indeed.
There's that word again. I asked Dale to put it on the banned list, but it keeps getting through.
BTW Martin you keep talking about Irish players not using the basses. I wonder how many you have actually listened to, because while it's true that some don't bother, esp. B/C players for historical reasons (unsuitable Hohner and P. Soprani bass layout) many of the better players, including some of my favourite ones, use the basses a good deal, and very creatively and effectively.
Examples: Jackie Daly, Tony McMahon, Andrew Mac Namara (all C#/D), Billy McComiskey, John Williams (both B/C)....
There's that word again. I asked Dale to put it on the banned list, but it keeps getting through.
BTW Martin you keep talking about Irish players not using the basses. I wonder how many you have actually listened to, because while it's true that some don't bother, esp. B/C players for historical reasons (unsuitable Hohner and P. Soprani bass layout) many of the better players, including some of my favourite ones, use the basses a good deal, and very creatively and effectively.
Examples: Jackie Daly, Tony McMahon, Andrew Mac Namara (all C#/D), Billy McComiskey, John Williams (both B/C)....
Not that many it's true! I mostly have fiddle CDs, and concertina, in ITM . I've got a John Whelan CD 'cos he gave it to me.
Jackie Daly I love, and I believe he plays a D/G? Others I have heard are probably B/C players. I just couldn't see how Sharon could use the bass buttons in that picture, and wondered if the others were. I'd heard she actually had the bass workings removed from some of her boxes, to lighten that end.
I've only been interested in Box playing box for (adds up) ten months... I shoudl probably keep stumm.
MORRIS
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that schwing
I'm delighted!
