C#/D general advice and things to avoid or try at first

[lixnaw]

Thanks Rob, that's what I would normally expect a cut to be but in that video that lixnaw mentions, P. Browne uses the term "cuts" for semitone upward slides from the outer to the inner row. (I have to say BTW that as incredibly skilful as Peter Browne is I don't warm to his style of playing at all.)

Another reason I asked is that I heard someone, and it might have been Jackie Daly, say that Paddy O B never learned to do 5-note rolls and simply plays for example GF#G instead.

Anyway Rob you shouldn't be so modest. I have a great deal more to be modest about, but since I discovered the squeezebox I can't stop running off at the keyboard.

Rick I just tallied up the tunes he actually taught us (rather than demonstrated) and yes polkas predominate with 3 sets (9 tunes), but there was only one set of slides (3 tunes), 2 sets each of jigs and reels (4 tunes for each) and 1 hornpipe. Anyway I was staring at his hand during all the demonstration pieces, which did include a few reels though none in D minor or C - I made sure I sat on the right side of the room to do that! But you're right about his reluctance to teach fingering and the like. I asked him on the first day and he said no very firmly!

Cheers
S

Steve, my point is that this video shows a lot of ornamentation, i can't think of anything he didn't show on ornamentation. There's something in there for everyone, but i admit he called that slide a cut, i knew it wasn't a cut but i couldn't place it. He could have done a better job though.

[Bretton]

I tend to follow Paddy O'Brien's advice to use primarily your index, middle, and ring fingers in the lower octave, and your middle, ring, and little fingers in the upper. I generally (though not always) do rolls like he does too, i.e. without the tap: note (cut) note note.

Same here! My first box workshop/lesson was with Paddy O'Brien...I guess that's why.

-Brett

[Bretton]

Another reason I asked is that I heard someone, and it might have been Jackie Daly, say that Paddy O B never learned to do 5-note rolls and simply plays for example GF#G instead.

I have no idea if this is correct... but here's my take on this: the types of "rolls" Paddy teaches are similar to what I've seen/heard concertina players do (I don't know if they call them rolls). note -- cut note -- note

There's no tap equivalent on the last note, but they do come out sounding like rolls.

They're easy to do on a one-row too, which is what I've been playing mostly, but I did start on a C#/D.

-Brett

[maze]

hey all, thanks for the really sound advice! i took possession of my box and what fun i have ahead of me. the bottom D (right hand bass D?) is a bit weak on the boebe and hence overblows with an ugly worbble... is this common? any way looks like for this old piper the trick will be getting used to the push pull in regards to where the notes are in a tune... i can play the scales straight away, but the moving of the hand up and down the rows will take work... pipers only lift and replace fingers but hand stays put...

are there set patterns on when to move hand up and down as in classical piano technique, or is it up to the individual to develop their own technique?

i will check out the peter browne dvd to see how my rolls, short rolls, crans, slurs, shakes, cuts and pats translate to the box.

any piper box players out there or are they mutually exclusive?


-maze in freereed heaven

[Rick C.]

Maze,

No, that's not normal at all, especially for a Saltarelle. If you can, contact the place you bought it from and ship it back to them for repair or replacement. One thing I've noticed about Bouebes is the -high- reeds take a while to break in (I'm talking high A, B, etc.), but the low end should be ballsy right out the box.

If it's a brand new box, I wouldn't even pull the pins, just send it back.


Rick

[Ro3b]

are there set patterns on when to move hand up and down as in classical piano technique, or is it up to the individual to develop their own technique?

Everybody has their own way, I guess. When I was starting out I would work out the fingering for each tune I learned and write it down. That helped me notice patterns, think through problems, etc. It's really satisfying to find economical, elegant fingerings rather than sliding all over the place.

I shift a few different ways. Crossing fingers over works kind of like on the piano. If, for example, I'm playing a D arpeggio

D F# A d f#

I'll finger it 1 2 3 1 2, crossing the index finger over for the second octave d. It's a bit easier to do it if you have a note on the outside row, like in the polka "We Won't Go Home Till Morning:"

G>A Bc|dg d2|

I'd finger:

12 23|24 2|

(FWIW, on the B/C box you play so many outside-row notes that you hardly ever have to cross over on the same row; that's one big difference between the two systems.)

Another technique is to change fingers when you have two different notes on the same button. You could finger that same lick

12 12|13 1|

changing fingers on the B and crossing the index finger over for the d. That makes it so you don't have to use the fourth finger for the g.

Of course there are a zillion ways to do it -- nothing wrong with trying them all.

[Rick C.]

[quote="Ro3b When I was starting out I would work out the fingering for each tune I learned and write it down. .[/quote]

Dang, y'all think too much.


On the other hand, maybe I should have written stuff down...


Rick

[StevieJ]

Lads and lasses: would you like to see a squeezebox forum on C&F?

I would, because there are Irish box lists (or groups), which are useful, but no forums, which are more so, and more fun AFAIAC.

There is a squeezebox forum at aimoo.melodeon.net but nearly everyone on there plays D/G and almost nobody is much interested in or knows anything about Irish music.

So a forum for Irish squeezebox players would be filling a gap.

I know, it would just another place to waste time instead of practising. OTOH one does learn useful stuff. It wouldn't have to deal with tinas because the forums at concertina.net are very well established.

Shall I ask Dale about it?

Steve

[johnkerr]

Steve, would this proposed squeezebox forum be for all kinds of squeezeboxes (i.e. accordions, melodeons, concertinas, etc) or just accordions? If it's just accordions, I suggest you name it so, thereby making it easier to keep concertina learners like myself out. I suppose I do have access to concertina.net after all.

If you do decide to include concertina in your proposed forum, though, be prepared for comments like this one:

Geez, you accordion players always griping about which finger to use to play which note. God almighty, you're only using the one hand, and half the time you don't even want to use the pinky finger on that hand. Try having to use both hands to play the tune sometime, and having to play the lower octave F# and pretty much any note below low D with the weakest of your fingers (the left hand pinky) sometime, and then maybe you can start griping. Wimps!

[Edited to say that now I feel like a fool because on re-reading your previous post I see that you already answered my question about concertinas. But I'm leaving this post in anyway because I'm in a bit of a ranting mood today, and I kinda like the one I just wrote. :-> ]

[Rick C.]

Geez, you accordion players always griping about which finger to use to play which note. God almighty, you're only using the one hand, and half the time you don't even want to use the pinky finger on that hand.

LMAO!!

[StevieJ]

John, far from being superfluous, your post has provided another good reason (apart from concertina.net) to exclude people such as yourself who will only take potshots at our eccentricities!

Quite apart from the fact that a concertina isn't a squeezebox at all. (A squeezepillbox, maybe...)

[johnkerr]

Actually, even though concertina.net is a nice resource for us squeeze pillboxers, it occurs to me that they don't focus solely on ITM there. There's all kinds of talk about English concertinas, duet concertinas (whatever the hell they are - and as far as I'm concerned I'm having enough trouble learning to play one concertina, let alone two), and other kinds of music besides Irish. In fact, I suspect that some of those guys may even be performing with trained monkeys. So if your proposed C&F squeezebox forum is going to focus solely on ITM, I actually may find more of a personal intersection there than on concertina.net. You might want to go ahead and lock me out of it right from the start when Dale sets it up...

[rh]

we could compromise and only allow concertinists who play instruments with accordion reeds.

[maze]

why the heck not proposal to dale a free reed forum? are box players as contentious as pipers? i know the piper forum has been the subject of writst smacking from time to time.

it would sure help me out... give something else to do avoiding work

[johnkerr]

Free reed forum? What, you want to let in those harmonica players now?